1. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    01 Jun '12 20:25
    I heard Hugh Ross say in his 1999 debate with Hovind that some Young-Earth Creationists don't believe in Quantum Mechanics.

    Dare I ask if there are any such people here?
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    01 Jun '12 22:461 edit
    It's not so much "deniers" as misunderstanding/non understanding of the matter at hand.
    You've seen the way they bumble around with trying to grasp even the most basic concepts of evolution , so why do you think they would understand anything about QM , which imo , is way harder (in general).

    It's a good point though!! To the followers of eastern mysticism , the discovery of quantum is just saying what some of the buddhists sutras have stated over 2000 years ago - albeit in a non-scientific language.

    I tried to paint a simple quantum conunderum to Robbie Carrobie once (I tried to keep it brief and simple as possible). He answered ,more or less, that he did not understand and couldn't really see the relevance,(if I remember right).

    I see the ramifications of Quantum theory as huge and quite potentially planet changing in a major way.
    It's just trying to get the basic idea out to the "common person in the street " that seems to be a major stumbling block.
    But it will happen, as long as the Earth is still functioning more or less the same way as now and humanity is relativley balanced (I'm hopin' ), then the new generations, with their fresh brains , will apply Quantum to technology,etc. and change the world very quickly. The potential is there.
  3. Joined
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    01 Jun '12 23:08
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I see the ramifications of Quantum theory as huge and quite potentially planet changing in a major way. It's just trying to get the basic idea out to the "common person in the street " that seems to be a major stumbling block. But it will happen [......] then the new generations, with their fresh brains, will apply Quantum to technology and change the world very quickly. The potential is there.
    Why do you foresee the getting of QM "out to the man in the street" as having a "major planet changing" impact, and what are the "huge ramifications" you speak of?
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    01 Jun '12 23:35
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    It's not so much "deniers" as misunderstanding/non understanding of the matter at hand.
    You've seen the way they bumble around with trying to grasp even the most basic concepts of evolution , so why do you think they would understand anything about QM , which imo , is way harder (in general).

    It's a good point though!! To the followers of eastern m ...[text shortened]... Quantum to technology,etc. and change the world very quickly. The potential is there.
    Many of the evolution deniers seem to misunderstand/not-understand evolution. But that doesn't stop them from denying it. Quite the opposite.

    So it is false that I think they would understand anything about QM. 🙂

    I am not a big fan of the attempt to meld Eastern mysticism and QM, but that is mainly because of my admitted bias against the former. It is hard for me to even think in the language of Eastern mysticism. I found QM easier. 😛

    QM is hard to get into the "street person's" head because it is counter-intuitive. Currently, we must accept certain weird conclusions because that's the way it comes out in experiment. Maybe it means our knowledge is simply incomplete. But, until we have a better theory, we have to go with what we know.

    QM already has changed the world very quickly. Take it away, and there are no transistors or lasers (and thus no digital electronics, computers, internet, CD/DVD/Blu-Ray players, laser-eye surgery, etc.) You'd also have to roll back other sciences, like chemistry, to pre-QM knowledge levels.
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 Jun '12 00:06
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Many of the evolution deniers seem to misunderstand/not-understand evolution. But that doesn't stop them from denying it. Quite the opposite.

    So it is false that I think they would understand anything about QM. 🙂

    I am not a big fan of the attempt to meld Eastern mysticism and QM, but that is mainly because of my admitted bias against the former. I ...[text shortened]... ) You'd also have to roll back other sciences, like chemistry, to pre-QM knowledge levels.
    Increase of Knowledge
    Prophecy: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4

    A portion of the book of Daniel was not going to be understood "until the time of the end." At the time of the end, many would run too and fro through the scriptures, comparing text with text, and understand these prophecies. We have reached that time, please start our Free Bible Prophecy course to learn more.
    The Bible also predicts a time when it will be too late to search the scriptures.

    "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. Amos 8:11-13

    While it is true that the vast majority of the world will be without God and without hope when Jesus returns, the Bible also says that many people will understand, prepare, and be ready. "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." Daniel 12:10

    The primary application of "knowledge increased" is in reference to people understanding the prophecies of the book of Daniel, however, many Bible scholars believe that this prophecy also applies to an increasing knowledge of science, medicine, travel, and technology.

    We are living in "The Information Age" making this sign seem even more obvious. Even the most skeptical mind must admit that knowledge is exploding in all directions. It is said that 80% percent of the world's total knowledge has been brought forth in the last decade and that 90% percent of all the scientists who have ever lived are alive today.


    http://www.finalevents.com/Event1/Sign10.asp?p=O
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    02 Jun '12 00:081 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Why do you foresee the getting of QM "out to the man in the street" as having a "major planet changing" impact, and what are the "huge ramifications" you speak of?
    For one example you could have these self-replicating micro machines that could be used for virtually anything (prolly be good for cleaning and recycling unused resources). That is one of the basic theories of Quantum - that any thing can be made out of anything (that's putting it a bit too forcefully) , but more practically , I think that they are working with atoms like carbon (for some basic mathematical reasons that i have read, but do not remember the specifics now), and a few others that share this "felxible" disposition that make them better than other molecules for quantum research

    Quantum takes a bit of imagination- it's difficult to treat it in contrast to anything else we have known scientifically. In some cases quantum has validated some theories while putting some others on their head . It takes a while to get an understanding in/on. I would say more than one book on this one 😉
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Jun '12 00:192 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Many of the evolution deniers seem to misunderstand/not-understand evolution. But that doesn't stop them from denying it. Quite the opposite.

    So it is false that I think they would understand anything about QM. 🙂

    I am not a big fan of the attempt to meld Eastern mysticism and QM, but that is mainly because of my admitted bias against the former. I ) You'd also have to roll back other sciences, like chemistry, to pre-QM knowledge levels.
    I think there will be room for quantum and the other sciences. After all, everything has it's place and if you dont hang onto the knowledge of the past then you might just get a bit confused as to explain exactly why we ever go onto quantum?, (or other such enquiries ). So lets keep everything so that we can always quickly and readily be able to explain any of the proofs or whys of quantum, keeping intact major changes in human thinking as brought about by Eintstein and the changes that would color the 20th century. The most productive century ever, largely helped by science.


    (pretty much agree with the rest of your post, I was just responding to the last 2 paragraphs)
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    02 Jun '12 00:31
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Increase of Knowledge
    Prophecy: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4

    A portion of the book of Daniel was not going to be understood "until the time of the end." At the time of the end, many would run too and fro through the script ...[text shortened]... e ever lived are alive today.


    http://www.finalevents.com/Event1/Sign10.asp?p=O
    Hahaha !! Gettin better.
    The humour , that is. I find your post totally off topic and just pure bile in the context of the rest of the posts here.


    Thing is, the bible is limited. There is no "Part 2" coming out. (Or hang on, maybe that was part 2 and the OT was part 1? ).

    Hmmm.. well? despite my uneditted version going to air, do you know anything about quantum? anything at all? (Not a link, just a simple line. And please tell us if you googled it or if it's something you already knew before I asked you here ?)
  9. Standard memberEAPOE
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    02 Jun '12 00:45
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Increase of Knowledge
    Prophecy: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4

    A portion of the book of Daniel was not going to be understood "until the time of the end." At the time of the end, many would run too and fro through the script ...[text shortened]... e ever lived are alive today.


    http://www.finalevents.com/Event1/Sign10.asp?p=O
    You poor ignorant bastard.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 Jun '12 00:58
    Originally posted by EAPOE
    You poor ignorant bastard.
    And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
    In that day it shall be—
    The Lord is one, And His name one.

    (Zechariah 14:9 NKJV)
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    02 Jun '12 01:15
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
    In that day it shall be—
    The Lord is one, And His name one.

    (Zechariah 14:9 NKJV)
    Hey before you just prove E A P O E totally right, why dont you actually answer the simple question I raised?

    Do you know anything about quantum? (simple)
  12. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    02 Jun '12 01:20
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Hey before you just prove E A P O E totally right, why dont you actually answer the simple question I raised?

    Do you know anything about quantum? (simple)
    I think he has given up on any attempt at science and falling back on mythology again.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 Jun '12 02:00
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Hey before you just prove E A P O E totally right, why dont you actually answer the simple question I raised?

    Do you know anything about quantum? (simple)
    No. I never heard of the guy. 😀
  14. Standard memberEAPOE
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    02 Jun '12 02:081 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I think he has given up on any attempt at science and falling back on mythology again.
    Schrödinger's cat unfortunately boarders on mythology. It was the most deceptive analogy ever made about the quantum world. An attempt to illustrate microscopic quantum events using a macroscopic model. It is no wonder people were left confused.
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Jun '12 02:18
    Originally posted by EAPOE
    Schrödinger's cat unfortunately boarders on mythology. It was the most deceptive analogy ever made about the quantum world. An attempt to illustrate microscopic quantum events using a macroscopic model. It is no wonder people were left confused.
    Thats right. And it was not for the first time that they would get utterly confused with subsequent findings in the quantum micro-world.
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