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    09 Sep '14 00:541 edit
    For those who belittle those who believe that a hell exists, (in the immortal words of Hillary Clinton), what difference does it make? So if there is no hell, then who cares about false doctrine? In fact, who cares about the truth if we are all going to the same place anyway?

    For those Christians that don't believe in a hell, what good is the cross? What good is the gospel?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 01:182 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who belittle those who believe that a hell exists, (in the immortal words of Hillary Clinton), what difference does it make? So if there is no hell, then who cares about false doctrine? In fact, who cares about the truth if we are all going to the same place anyway?
    If you feel "belittled" by discussion of the ghastly ideology then so be it. Maybe there's reason for some self-reflection right there, but it's up to you.

    "What difference does [the doctrine] make?"

    To me personally, very little I reckon, although...

    [1] psychologically, in a subtle way, it may contribute to some degree of dehumanization of non-believers and adherents to other faiths;

    [2] it is an indicator (at least to people who don't subscribe to the "Hell" doctrine) of something awry with the mindset and moral compass of those who propagate it; and...

    [3] it has been used to coerce and manipulate people over the centuries, for example I am sure many Christian victims of child sex abuse have kept quiet because of a fear of their "sin" and "Hell" and in some cases this threat may have been wielded by the abuser. There are certainly countless other examples of how this doctrine can have an impact on vulnerable people.
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Sep '14 01:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who belittle those who believe that a hell exists, (in the immortal words of Hillary Clinton), what difference does it make? So if there is no hell, then who cares about false doctrine? In fact, who cares about the truth if we are all going to the same place anyway?

    For those Christians that don't believe in a hell, what good is the cross? What good is the gospel?
    In an environment where the word 'hell' has many meanings maybe you should define what you mean by 'hell'.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    09 Sep '14 01:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who belittle those who believe that a hell exists,
    I have not seen this and would be interested to see an example.

    What I have seen is theists questioning eachother over the meaning of hell
    and
    atheists asking theists difficult questions about their own beliefs.

    When theists cannot put their own faith under scrutiny and
    refuse to answer questions (or dance around difficult issues)
    then perhaps sometimes the theist is "belittled" by the atheist,
    but that is because of their attitude and not their belief in hell.
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    09 Sep '14 06:254 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who belittle those who believe that a hell exists, (in the immortal words of Hillary Clinton), what difference does it make? So if there is no hell, then who cares about false doctrine? In fact, who cares about the truth if we are all going to the same place anyway?

    For those Christians that don't believe in a hell, what good is the cross? What good is the gospel?
    Firstly you need to define what you mean by "hell". I'm guessing do not mean "hell" but are referring to the doctrine of "eternal punishment through everlasting burning in a fiery lake of brimstone"

    If you believe in this doctrine that billions upon billions of people will be thrown into everlasting torment for rejecting a free gift from a god who loved them so much he died for them and who will stand with his angels watching (yes some here claim that from the book of Revelation); then you deserve a metaphorical slap and whatever encouragement you need to review the reasons for holding such a horrendous belief.

    Considering the horrendous nature of this belief which makes out that our Lord is worse than the hateful maniacs who behead infidels on the internet, then those reasons should be based on multiple unequivocal scriptures across both covenants, dispensations and prophets.

    Or are you are talking about something else?
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    10 Sep '14 02:35
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Firstly you need to define what you mean by "hell". I'm guessing do not mean "hell" but are referring to the doctrine of "eternal punishment through everlasting burning in a fiery lake of brimstone"

    If you believe in this doctrine that billions upon billions of people will be thrown into everlasting torment for rejecting a free gift from a god who lo ...[text shortened]... oss both covenants, dispensations and prophets.

    Or are you are talking about something else?
    My question is, did Jesus die on the cross in vain?

    Was his death and subsequent ressurection needed to have life in the next life?

    Secondly, is our faith in vain? If everyone will have the same fate after death, then why not eat, drink, and be merry and forget about God and our faith in him?
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    10 Sep '14 02:38
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    [b]I have not seen this and would be interested to see an example.
    We are belittled even here. Any hint of a belief in a hell is met with outrage and disdain.
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    10 Sep '14 02:39
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    In an environment where the word 'hell' has many meanings maybe you should define what you mean by 'hell'.
    Hell meaning seperation from God in the next life.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    10 Sep '14 02:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    Hell meaning seperation from God in the next life.
    If someone asks 'what "next life"?', do you feel "belittled"?
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    10 Sep '14 02:46
    Originally posted by whodey
    We are belittled even here. Any hint of a belief in a hell is met with outrage and disdain.
    I disagree. Your "belief in a hell" is met with questions and analysis that you appear unable to address properly.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Sep '14 02:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    Hell meaning seperation from God in the next life.
    I still dont understand your definition. There are some who are separated from God in this life. Is that hell as well?
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    10 Sep '14 03:21
    Originally posted by FMF
    ...

    [1] psychologically, in a subtle way, it may contribute to some degree of dehumanization of non-believers and adherents to other faiths;

    [2] it is an indicator (at least to people who don't subscribe to the "Hell" doctrine) of something awry with the mindset and moral compass of those who propagate it; and...

    [3] it has been used to coerce and manip ...[text shortened]... certainly countless other examples of how this doctrine can have an impact on vulnerable people.[/b]
    1. It can lead to that. In fact, Jews were hunted down like dogs in "Christian" Europe at one time and killed for rejecting their Messiah. But as we see today, hate is now focused in other ways, such as those who hate Zionists. Haters are gonna hate.

    2. We all have issues with our moral compass. That is why we need God. Righteosness based upon only what we think is right is self righteous in nature.

    3. And I'm sure that many people have oppressed and killed innocent people with the notion that they will get away with it simply because they are the law of the land or have the military might to do so without reprocussions with the notion that will never have to answer to God.
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    10 Sep '14 03:25
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I still dont understand your definition. There are some who are separated from God in this life. Is that hell as well?
    In the next life, I'm sure that hell is not pleasant and would be considered "torture".

    And yes, people experience it on earth as well.
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    10 Sep '14 03:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    I disagree. Your "belief in a hell" is met with questions and analysis that you appear unable to address properly.
    As I've said, hell is referred to in the spiritual realm. Fire and brimstone are terms used to describe it, but I don't reckon you could use fire as we know it to actually burn a spirit.

    I have no idea what it involves, and hope never to find out.
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    10 Sep '14 03:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    We are belittled even here. Any hint of a belief in a hell is met with outrage and disdain.
    Well a belief in hell is more than "hinted at" in this forum so it should
    be really easy to show some examples of what you are talking about.

    And its "outrage and disdain" you have to show now.
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