Question for hell doubters
15 Sep '14 06:371 editThere have been quite a few threads on hell here lately. Sonship had the one about what Jesus said about hell, and then the entire debate about the meaning of "death", and whether the punishment is "eternal annihilation" or "eternal torment".
I have not joined the fray for reasons that I may explain later in a separate thread.
For the moment I just want to address the issue of the "Poor man, Rich man" story that Jesus told, that is often taken as proof of eternal torture.
Two comments:
Firstly, it is clear that this is an allegory, a fable, a parable, as so many of Jesus' stories. The fact that it cannot possibly be taken literally is seen from the following:
- the fact that a single drop of water (which is what was asked for and refused) cannot possibly solve the rich man's problem
- the existence of a visible gulf between the two places, across which one can hold a conversation, which is clearly untenable for "heavenly bliss".
Both of these descriptions are thus clearly metaphorical.
However, the main point that sonship and everybody else (except maybe Rajk!) seems to miss, is that this parable has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, being "born again" or Faith in Christ. Nowhere is it mentioned that Lazarus "believed in God" (as was recorded about e.g. Abraham), and that the rich man was an unbeliever.
The ONLY reason stated here for the rich man ending up where he did was that he LACKED COMPASSION, that he did not care for the poor man at his gate.
This parable is about Good Works, about Caring For The Poor - which was always close to Jesus' heart (as well as the Apostles later).
So anybody that is using this scripture to prove hell for the unbelievers, is missing the boat completely!
I have not joined the fray for reasons that I may explain later in a separate thread.
For the moment I just want to address the issue of the "Poor man, Rich man" story that Jesus told, that is often taken as proof of eternal torture.
Two comments:
Firstly, it is clear that this is an allegory, a fable, a parable, as so many of Jesus' stories. The fact that it cannot possibly be taken literally is seen from the following:
- the fact that a single drop of water (which is what was asked for and refused) cannot possibly solve the rich man's problem
- the existence of a visible gulf between the two places, across which one can hold a conversation, which is clearly untenable for "heavenly bliss".
Both of these descriptions are thus clearly metaphorical.
However, the main point that sonship and everybody else (except maybe Rajk!) seems to miss, is that this parable has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, being "born again" or Faith in Christ. Nowhere is it mentioned that Lazarus "believed in God" (as was recorded about e.g. Abraham), and that the rich man was an unbeliever.
The ONLY reason stated here for the rich man ending up where he did was that he LACKED COMPASSION, that he did not care for the poor man at his gate.
This parable is about Good Works, about Caring For The Poor - which was always close to Jesus' heart (as well as the Apostles later).
So anybody that is using this scripture to prove hell for the unbelievers, is missing the boat completely!
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