1. Joined
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    30 Apr '05 15:382 edits
    Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}
    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but he was he Moslim and lived by those rules.
    B: Your other Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but didn't believe in any God at all
    C: A Christian serial-killer who has prayed for forgiveness 5 minutes before he died.
    D: A baby which died in a car-accident when it was 5 days old. (non-Christian parents)

    Questions for the Moslims.
    You lived your life as a good Moslim, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}
    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    E: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but he was he Christian and lived by those rules.
    F: Your other Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but didn't believe in any God at all
    G: A Moslim serial-killer who has prayed for forgiveness 5 minutes before he died.
    H: A baby which died in a car-accident when it was 5 days old. (non-Moslim parents)


    Reply to as many questions as you like, please refer to the letters.

    eg:
    I'm asking for your opinion. just your thought, I know it's not in your hands to judge
  2. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    30 Apr '05 16:073 edits
    A: B: - living a "good life" does not have any direct bearing on what will happen. The only question is did the person have faith in Christ.

    C: D: - faith is a gift from God, who may or may no give it to a baby, or a serial killer.

    The ONLY question that can tell us if a person is saved is do they have faith in Christ alone ( faith that only by His death on the cross can they be saved).

    What necessarily follows from having a saving faith in Christ, is a life lived to glorify God by obeying his commands - one of the most important is to love your neighbor (really everyone).

    The serial killer may be saved because because God may have mercy on him and give him true faith in the end. Asking forgiveness does not mean he has saving faith - it is more likely a desperate attempt in the last minute to save himself - maybe under the false assumption that all he need to do was pray for forgiveness. Up till the end, the serial killer did not have saving faith, or he would not have been a serial killer. The last few minutes - no one can say.

    I think the baby is more likely to be saved, but there is no rule that says it will. God has given infants faith - but we could never know for sure in most cases.

    P.S. Christian serial killer is an oxymoron.
    P.P.S. The parents faith does have a direct bearing on the state of the baby.
  3. Joined
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    30 Apr '05 18:371 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti
    A: B: - living a "good life" does not have any direct bearing on what will happen. The only question is did the person have faith in Christ.

    C: D: - faith is a gift from God, who may or may no give it to a baby, or a serial killer. ...[text shortened]... parents faith does have a direct bearing on the state of the baby.
    Thanks for your reaction.

    A: B: If the most important thing is to have faith in Christ then I am allowed to sin in any way as long as I really regret it afterwards.

    If I sin and really regret it afterwards because I believe its wrong and not because of my believe. Then I would burn.

    correct me if I am wrong.

    C: D: I understand most of your Point of View. few questions though.
    you state that Gos has given infants faith. How do you know? How can just born baby have faith?

    your P.S.
    Christian serial killer
    George Bush. (he claims to be Christian, I don't know if it's true I strongly doubt it)

    I think I don't really understand your P.P.S. could you clearify it?


  4. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
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    30 Apr '05 18:55
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Thanks for your reaction.

    A: B: If the most important thing is to have faith in Christ then I am allowed to sin in any way as long as I really regret it afterwards.

    If I sin and really regret it afterwards because I believe its wrong and not because of my believe. Then I would burn.

    correct me if I am wrong.

    C: D: I understand most of your Poin ...[text shortened]... rongly doubt it)

    I think I don't really understand your P.P.S. could you clearify it?


    A: B: If the most important thing is to have faith in Christ then I am allowed to sin in any way as long as I really regret it afterwards.
    No, regret doesn't entail faith. Most people regret sins regardless if they have saving faith or not.

    If I sin and really regret it afterwards because I believe its wrong and not because of my believe. Then I would burn.
    See above. Regret is like happiness - anyone can do it. But a person who calls himself a Christian and does not regret sin, it probably not saved. A person who rejects Christ as the only means of justification, does not have saving faith.

    C: D: I understand most of your Point of View. few questions though.
    you state that Gos has given infants faith. How do you know? How can just born baby have faith?
    There are one or two examples in the bible. One where a baby lept for joy in it's mother's womb. And since saving faith is a gift, and it is God who gives it, nothing could logically prevent God from saving infants.

    I think I don't really understand your P.P.S. could you clearify it?
    The parents having faith is not a guarantee that the baby will also have saving faith. It does not say the children of un-believers can not be saved.
  5. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    30 Apr '05 18:562 edits
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}
    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neigh ...[text shortened]... pinion. just your thought, I know it's not in your hands to judge
    D. I will say this a baby is innocent.
    Jesus said heaven will be filled with Children.
    A baby may be born into sin, but he doesn't now what it is.
    It someone does something wrong and knows that it is wrong sins.
  6. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    30 Apr '05 18:58
    Originally posted by Coletti
    A: B: - living a "good life" does not have any direct bearing on what will happen. The only question is did the person have faith in Christ.

    C: D: - faith is a gift from God, who may or may no give it to a baby, or a serial killer.

    The ONLY question that can tell us if a person is saved is do they have faith in Christ alone ( faith that only by Hi ...[text shortened]... is an oxymoron.
    P.P.S. The parents faith does have a direct bearing on the state of the baby.
    You gave some excellent answers to A.B.C. & D.
  7. Joined
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    01 May '05 02:56
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}
    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but he was he Moslim and lived by those rules.
    B: Your other Neighbour who ...[text shortened]...
    eg:
    I'm asking for your opinion. just your thought, I know it's not in your hands to judge
    Christian A: If my Moslem neighbor never had a Chance to Know the Salvation of JESUS, or to reject that saving power he would go to heaven.
    B:My neighbor who was a good person if he never had a chance to accept the saving power of JESUS, would go to heaven. If my neighbor rejected the Salvation of JESUS, he would go to hell.
    C: The Christian Serial killer that prayed for forgiveness and accepted the Salvation of JESUS would go to heaven.
    D:The baby that died will go to heaven


  8. e2
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    01 May '05 08:09
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}


    There are no good Christians.

    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but he was he Moslim and lived by those rules.


    A good life isn't good enough. Not for anyone, Christian or otherwise. No one will ever get into heaven because he or she lived a 'good' life, whatever that may be, or because he obeyed these rules or those. So if the question is whether a Moslem who lives a good life will get into heaven because he lived a good life, my answer is no. Further, if you want to know whether a Christian who lived a good life will get into heaven because he lived a good life, my answer is no.

    B: Your other Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but didn't believe in any God at all

    No. Theoretically, if he lived a perfect life, and to my knowledge that has only happened once, then he could get into heaven on his own merit. But 'good' life isn't good enough. And just believing in God won't help either, if you mean what I think you mean by 'believing in.'

    C: A Christian serial-killer who has prayed for forgiveness 5 minutes before he died.

    If by praying for forgiveness you mean he said some words about it to God, that won't do it. If you mean he came to despise his evil so that he'd suffer anything just to undo the horrors he had inflicted on others, that he realized the awfulness of his sin and recognized that justice demands his damnation, that he knew he did not in the least deserve mercy from God, but that he nevertheless asked for God's mercy and resigned himself to whatever fate awaited, then yes I think he would be saved, regardless of whether he lived 5 seconds more or 5 decades. It is the sincerity of his plea and of his conviction of his own guilt which would matter, not whether he said a prayer. And God doesn't need a lifetime to see if the plea and conviction are genuine. The question is not whether he lived long enough to prove his repentance with deeds. The question is whether, if he lived long enough, he would prove his repentance with deeds. And there's no fooling God about it. At any rate, you haven't given enough information in this question for me to answer what I believe about this particular serial killer.

    D: A baby which died in a car-accident when it was 5 days old. (non-Christian parents)

    I subscribe to an age-of-accountability view, which is not to say that there is a fixed chronological age at which one becomes accountable. However, I believe it is impossible to have attained accountability at the age of 5 days. I believe all infants are safe in the Lord. I believe the question of their parents' religion is irrelevant.
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    01 May '05 18:21
    Originally posted by Coletti

    P.S. Christian serial killer is an oxymoron.
    Why is this? Are you saying true Christians can't sin? Are you saying true Christians can't commit egregious sins?

    Why is Chrisitan serial killer an oxymoron, while Christian sinner is not?
  10. London
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    01 May '05 20:341 edit
    Originally posted by huntingbear
    Originally posted by Siebren
    [b]Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}


    There are no good Christian ...[text shortened]... I believe the question of their parents' religion is irrelevant.[/b]
    [/b]In general, huntingbear's excellent replies to your questions reflect my views as well. The only exception being that, in the case of (D), I would simply say, "I don't know". I sincerely hope the baby gets to heaven, but I simply wouldn't know.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    01 May '05 22:32
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Why is this? Are you saying true Christians can't sin? Are you saying true Christians can't commit egregious sins?

    Why is Chrisitan serial killer an oxymoron, while Christian sinner is not?
    What makes someone a Christian in your opinion, simply the making
    the claim?
    Kelly
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    West Coast Rioter
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    01 May '05 22:36
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    What makes someone a Christian in your opinion, simply the making
    the claim?
    Kelly
    I would say someone is a Christian if they believe Jesus was the Messiah.

    Many fundamentalists have much stricter ideas of what makes a person a Christian. All of these findamentalists seem to agree however that being a sinner does not keep one from being a Christian; in fact, all people are horrible sinners and unworthy of anything good. Therefore, what makes someone who sins via serial killing different from someone who sins in other ways? Because we're all sinners right?
  13. Joined
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    01 May '05 22:45
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    D. I will say this a baby is innocent.
    Jesus said heaven will be filled with Children.
    A baby may be born into sin, but he doesn't now what it is.
    It someone does something wrong and knows that it is wrong sins.
    Then why is a baby born in sin?
  14. Joined
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    01 May '05 22:531 edit
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    Christian A: If my Moslem neighbor never had a Chance to Know the Salvation of JESUS, or to reject that saving power he would go to heaven.
    B:My neighbor who was a good person if he never had a chance to accept the savin ...[text shortened]... heaven.
    D:The baby that died will go to heaven


    Three questions

    1) When do you "reject" the saving power of Jesus? If you know the religion Christianity but it is not your religion do you then reject the saving power of Jesus? I myself don't have the "faith" described earlier. However I'm alsno not saying Christians are wrong. Am I rejecting? If so, would I've been better off not knowing this religion?

    2) Why is the belief in Jesus so important? You're stating all Jews go to hell automaticly because they decline Jesus Christ as the saviour however they are the people of God. How can this be?

    3) (D) Why does the baby go to heaven? wouldn't God just simply "judge" the baby on his/her deeds it would have done if it didn't died?

  15. Joined
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    01 May '05 22:57
    Originally posted by huntingbear
    Originally posted by Siebren
    [b]Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}


    There are no good Christians.

    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped ...[text shortened]... infants are safe in the Lord. I believe the question of their parents' religion is irrelevant.
    d) Why are all infants safe to the lord? There is a bible story where a lion tears apart infants because they where telling names. (don't know where, if anyone can help me out with this please do)
    Why is their parents religion irrelevant?
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