1. London
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    01 May '05 23:37
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Questions for the Christians.
    You lived your life as a good Christian, when you left this world ,much to your delight you see that there is a life after. {olé}
    Question: What do you think happens to the following persons.
    A: Your Neighbour who lived a good life helped everybody but he was he Moslim and lived by those rules.
    B: Your other Neighbour who ...[text shortened]...
    eg:
    I'm asking for your opinion. just your thought, I know it's not in your hands to judge
    Btw, are these questions aimed at OSAS Christians?
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 May '05 00:03
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    What makes someone a Christian in your opinion, simply the making
    the claim?
    Kelly
    I don't know, and I don't have to know because I don't go around classifying people under that term. I don't have an opinion on it.

    Coletti is the person making a claim about what Christianity is, namely, something that is incompatible with serial murder. Perhaps you should ask him what makes someone a Christian, and why that something logically excludes certain sins but is consistent with other sins.
  3. e2
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    02 May '05 01:51
    Originally posted by Siebren
    d) Why are all infants safe to the lord?

    First, let me ammend my answer in light of what lucifershammer said. While I was careful to say that I only believe all infants are safe, I could have made more explicit my distinction between belief in knowledge. So, I believe they are safe, but I do not know for sure.

    To the question, then. I believe all infants are safe because I subscribe to an age-of-accountability view. That is, a child too young to understand right and wrong, or in fact anyone truly incapable of the understanding (and again, there's no fooling God about it), is not accountable. For example, my daughter loves to take favored possessions of her older brother and run off with them, to induce him to chase her. Now theft is wrong, and her motives are selfish. But she is incapable of understanding the harm she is doing by upsetting her brother. I seek to instruct her not to do this, but I do not scold her too harshly, because I know she's just a toddler. God knows that too, and it is my belief that He would receive her to Himself if she were to die today.

    There is a bible story where a lion tears apart infants because they where telling names. (don't know where, if anyone can help me out with this please do)

    Don't worry. I know where the story is. But it's not a lion, and they weren't infants. Regardless, the story says nothing at all about whether the youths went to heaven, which is the subject at hand.

    Why is their parents religion irrelevant?

    Because unaccountable is unaccountable. It doesn't matter whether a baby's mother is Christian or Jewish or panentheist, unaccountable is unaccountable. But even if my age-of-accountability doctrine is false, I still know of no Biblical suggestion that the religion of one's parents has any direct impact on one's own salvation.
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 May '05 01:581 edit
    Originally posted by huntingbear
    in fact anyone truly incapable of the understanding (and again, there's no fooling God about it), is not accountable.
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have never heard the Word of God and thus do not have a biblical understanding of right and wrong?

    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner
    that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?
  5. Joined
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    02 May '05 01:59
    Originally posted by Siebren
    Three questions

    1) When do you "reject" the saving power of Jesus? If you know the religion Christianity but it is not your religion do you then reject the saving power of Jesus? I myself don't have the "faith" described earlier. However I'm alsno not saying Christians are wrong. Am I rejecting? If so, would I've been better off not knowing this re ...[text shortened]... t God just simply "judge" the baby on his/her deeds it would have done if it didn't died?

    If you have had the opportunity to accept or reject JESUS CHRIST as Your LORD AND SAVIOR, and you reject HIS Sacrifice and teachings. How can you reach Heaven. If CHRIST told one Lie, then all HE said was untrue. And HE taught that noone can enter into heaven to be with GOD, without repenting and accepting all HE did and taught.What is there about JESUS CHRIST that can be rejected. Even if you accept him as a Prophet, as a Prophet are you not bound to do and accept all that HE did and said.
    Yes it is true that you would be better off not knowing about the Saving Power of CHRIST. Then to know about CHRIST and reject HIS teachings. If you once believed in CHRIST saving power, and then turned away from HIM, would not your punishment be greater.
    If a Jew or anyone else has heard about JESUS CHRIST and rejected HIM, would it not be right that they go to Hell. If someone rejected CHRIST would it be right that they go to heaven. Then that would make both GOD and JESUS CHRIST Liars. And we all Know that GOD cannot tell a Lie.
    The Jews are GOD'S chosen people. But they rejected JESUS CHRIST. So now the Believers in CHRIST are now also GOD'S chosen people. The Jews still are because they will accept JESUS CHRIST as their Savior soon very soon.
    Children who do not know right from wrong are not judged as grown men and women. Judgement is for those that do know right from wrong.
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    02 May '05 02:01
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have never heard the Word of God and thus do not have a biblical understanding of right and wrong?

    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner
    that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?
    Would it not be true that if someone has GOD given reason, they could not reject The Saving Power of CHRIST.
  7. e2
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    02 May '05 02:25
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have never heard the Word of God and thus do not have a biblical understanding of right and wrong?

    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner
    that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?
    Big questions. They tie into the question of the Accidental Disciple, a topic on which I owe a thread to bbarr and Nemesio. In the meantime...

    For now I will only say, and this I will say with confidence, that God holds accountable only those who are justly accountable. If I reason that a certain person is unaccountable, but God disagrees, then He knew better than I did. I know that, in the end, I'm relying on my personal trust in God as the source for this belief. So I do not expect anyone without such a trust in Him to agree with me on this point.

    Whatever the answer to it, I think all Christians should think carefully about your second question, and keep it in mind any time they post. You have done a service to the Kingdom of God by asking it! 🙂
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 May '05 02:26
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    Would it not be true that if someone has GOD given reason, they could not reject The Saving Power of CHRIST.
    That would not be true.

    Every weak atheist is a counterexample, unless you are willing to state that God has refused to bless weak atheists with the gift of reason.
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 May '05 02:301 edit
    Originally posted by huntingbear
    You have done a service to the Kingdom of God by asking it! 🙂
    Likewise, Mr. Cent, by your not claiming to know the answers, and by not making up a contrived response that any clear thinking person could see through and thus be turned away from this thing called Christianity. May God bless us both for our contributions.
  10. e2
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    02 May '05 02:46
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Likewise, Mr. Cent, by your not claiming to know the answers, and by not making up a contrived response that any clear thinking person could see through and thus be turned away from this thing called Christianity.

    Thank you, good doctor. I can't tell you how important it is to me not to bring dishonor to His name. God's name, that is. Neither, though, do I want to shame 5 Cent, whose name I also bear.

    May God bless us both for our contributions.

    Amen.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    02 May '05 03:08
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I don't know, and I don't have to know because I don't go around classifying people under that term. I don't have an opinion on it.

    Coletti is the person making a claim about what Christianity is, namely, something that is incompatible with serial murder. Perhaps you should ask him what makes someone a Christian, and why that something logically excludes certain sins but is consistent with other sins.
    Okay, you do not know what a Christian is, do you know what sin is and
    how it relates to God, man, and their relationship? I'm wondering as you
    seem to an opinion about sin, God, and man.
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 May '05 03:481 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Okay, you do not know what a Christian is, do you know what sin is and
    how it relates to God, man, and their relationship?
    I only know what others have proclaimed about the subjects.

    For instance, I have heard it said in this forum that Thou Shalt Not Kill is a commandment from God to man, and that to violate that commandment is to sin.

    I have heard it said in this thread that Christians cannot be serial killers, and serial killers cannot be Christians. I was wondering if this mutual exclusion was due to serial killing being a sin, or whether something else besides its sinfulness makes it incompatible with Christianity; that is, whether all sin is mutually exclusive with Christianity; that is, whether it also true that Christians cannot be sinners, and sinners cannot be Christians.

    As it turns out, I'm asking the same questions of Coletti that you're asking of me. But I don't claim to have the answers. Presumably he does, as he is making a claim, namely that Christian serial killers cannot logically exist.
  13. Not Kansas
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    02 May '05 08:03
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have never heard the Word of God and thus do not have a biblical understanding of right and wrong?

    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner
    that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner
    that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?


    This is surely rec-able. It reminded me of the short story Footprints In The Jungle by W. Somerset Maugham, a story about two people who have led, except for one thing, exemplary lives. The policeman investigating that one thing says that there's one job he wouldn't want: God's at Judgement Day.
    How different is this outlook from that which reduces God's job to asking one question ...
  14. Standard memberColetti
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    02 May '05 12:47
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Why is this? Are you saying true Christians can't sin? Are you saying true Christians can't commit egregious sins?

    Why is Chrisitan serial killer an oxymoron, while Christian sinner is not?
    Thanks for asking.

    The reason I said that being a serial murderer and Christianity is an oxymoron is because when a person becomes a Christian, there should my some change in that person. A truly converted SK should recognize that they have committed grievous sins, regret those sins, and do something to stop sinning and make restitution - and turn themselves in to the law. If the SK thinks they are a Christian, but continues killing over and over (even if it makes them feel bad) then he is not really a Christian.

    A Christian will sin after conversion, but there will also be a change in his life. If there is absolutely no change, then the no conversion has taken place.
  15. Standard memberColetti
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    02 May '05 13:00
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Does your accountability belief extend to those who have heard the Word of God, but have heard it in an unconvincing, incorrect, or some other manner that caused them to use their God-given reason to reject it as an unworthy understanding of right and wrong?
    If a person has heard the Gospel message correctly, and understands it correctly - they are more accountable than someone who has not heard or heard incorrectly. A correct understanding of the Gospel does not make one a Christian, one must still believe the Gospel is true.

    If you have been given a correct Gospel message, and you understand that message - you can not reject the message using correct reasoning, nor can you believe it based on reasoning alone. You will reach the point where you realize that Christianity is either true or false, and one must ether accept it or reject it on faith. The logical is complete, the system is well reasoned, but the final step is only to assent to the truth, putting your trust in Christ, or to reject it. One answer will not be more logical than the other.

    Reasoning can get you most of the way there, but belief is a gift from God. You can not reason yourself into it. But neither can you reject is based solely on logic.
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