1. Standard memberAgerg
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    27 May '10 02:284 edits
    This one is more for those who genuinely believe in the literal account of the garden of Eden

    Given that this sin was that which instantiated the inherent sin within us all, (and required the act of God 'sacrificing' himself for the benefit of all humankind) then one should assume that this was in some way, an evil (or if you prefer, a *not good*) act.

    Assuming this is so, did they know it was evil (or not good) to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil??? πŸ˜•
  2. Unknown Territories
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    27 May '10 03:40
    Originally posted by Agerg
    This one is more for those who genuinely believe in the literal account of the garden of Eden

    Given that this sin was that which instantiated the inherent sin within us all, (and required the act of God 'sacrificing' himself for the benefit of all humankind) then one should assume that this was in some way, an evil (or if you prefer, a *not good*) act.

    A ...[text shortened]... d they know it was evil (or not good) to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil??? πŸ˜•
    Oh, vey.

    In the Garden, there were but two choices: life or death. Life was what they had, day by day, for an undetermined amount of time. They were warned not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why? The tree represented death. Good and evil, as a system, represents death. Otherwise, it was all (characterizing here) good.

    The woman, beguiled, chose death. The man, not wanting to be without the woman, chose death. In their choice, they found the system known as good and evil... and it sucketh.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    27 May '10 06:46
    Originally posted by Agerg
    This one is more for those who genuinely believe in the literal account of the garden of Eden

    Given that this sin was that which instantiated the inherent sin within us all, (and required the act of God 'sacrificing' himself for the benefit of all humankind) then one should assume that this was in some way, an evil (or if you prefer, a *not good*) act.

    A ...[text shortened]... d they know it was evil (or not good) to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil??? πŸ˜•
    I'll try to stay out of this one but just wanted to point out something. Ie. that living forever in a physical body is not a particurlarly deirable way to exist. Think about it. Day after day of meeting your physical needs. Eating, sleeping, maybe some sex(?). What is there to learn? What is there to gain by living forever in a physical body?( Of course for this to happen we would have to ignore the second law of thermodynamics).
    It is in our nature to hang onto life for as long as possible,(given that we are not living in pain or other such problems). But who would want such an existence? Not me. If there is any truth to the garden of eden story, I'm sure it is not a literal one.
  4. Standard memberAgerg
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    27 May '10 08:36
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Oh, vey.

    In the Garden, there were but two choices: life or death. Life was what they had, day by day, for an undetermined amount of time. They were warned not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why? The tree represented death. Good and evil, as a system, represents death. Otherwise, it was all (characterizing here) good.

    The ...[text shortened]... , chose death. In their choice, they found the system known as good and evil... and it sucketh.
    Well I don't want to get drawn into a Bble quoting fest here, but the consequences of this act (as implied by Genesis chapter 3) suggest your God was mighty mighty p!ssed off at this act and caused that other not so nice things should befall them and their seed. (More than letting them just die)

    The specifics of the story don't interest me so greatly to be honest, more I'm interested in the extent to which they *knew* eating from the tree of *knowledge of good and evil* was not good.
  5. Standard memberAgerg
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    27 May '10 08:421 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I'll try to stay out of this one but just wanted to point out something. Ie. that living forever in a physical body is not a particurlarly deirable way to exist. Think about it. Day after day of meeting your physical needs. Eating, sleeping, maybe some sex(?). What is there to learn? What is there to gain by living forever in a physical body?( Of course ...[text shortened]... ? Not me. If there is any truth to the garden of eden story, I'm sure it is not a literal one.
    Heh...I'd prefer to keep my personal opinions about the nature of an afterlife or eternal life to myself. (a thread a while ago by me where I made them clear didn't go down too well)
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    27 May '10 09:18
    Originally posted by Agerg
    This one is more for those who genuinely believe in the literal account of the garden of Eden

    Given that this sin was that which instantiated the inherent sin within us all, (and required the act of God 'sacrificing' himself for the benefit of all humankind) then one should assume that this was in some way, an evil (or if you prefer, a *not good*) act.

    A ...[text shortened]... d they know it was evil (or not good) to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil??? πŸ˜•
    it's argued that they didn't know evil or good, and so they had to listen to god. that was their rule. if your asking if not knowing evil from good absolves them of responsibility, no it doesn't. sure they didn't know they were doing something bad but they did know god doesn't want them to.

    like if you tell your 5 year old child not smash your plasma TV and he does it anyway. you still punish him even if he doesn't understand good and evil. but as a side note, please don't kick him out of the garden of eden(your house) and send him in the world to care for himself and suffer and die. that would be uncool.
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    27 May '10 09:20
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH

    The woman, beguiled, chose death. The man, not wanting to be without the woman, chose death.
    does this sound a little sexist to anyone but me? does it say that the woman was stupid and she was tricked but the man knew better but chose to follow the woman out of the goodness of his heart? πŸ˜€
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    27 May '10 09:33
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Heh...I'd prefer to keep my personal opinions about the nature of an afterlife or eternal life to myself. (a thread a while ago by me where I made them clear didn't go down too well)
    Yep.
    A lot of things that seem self-evident to me dont go down too well.
    I hope you keep trying, or refining, or both.
  9. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    27 May '10 09:35
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    does this sound a little sexist to anyone but me? does it say that the woman was stupid and she was tricked but the man knew better but chose to follow the woman out of the goodness of his heart? πŸ˜€
    Yep and yep
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    27 May '10 10:00
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Yep and yep
    he will probably argue that it is written in the bible that the woman be subservient to manπŸ˜€ that she is weaker both physically and spiritually.
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    27 May '10 12:42
    Originally posted by Agerg
    This one is more for those who genuinely believe in the literal account of the garden of Eden

    Given that this sin was that which instantiated the inherent sin within us all, (and required the act of God 'sacrificing' himself for the benefit of all humankind) then one should assume that this was in some way, an evil (or if you prefer, a *not good*) act.

    A ...[text shortened]... d they know it was evil (or not good) to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil??? πŸ˜•
    They knew what God had said, that they would surely die.
  12. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    27 May '10 17:16
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Oh, vey.

    In the Garden, there were but two choices: life or death. Life was what they had, day by day, for an undetermined amount of time. They were warned not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why? The tree represented death. Good and evil, as a system, represents death. Otherwise, it was all (characterizing here) good.

    The ...[text shortened]... , chose death. In their choice, they found the system known as good and evil... and it sucketh.
    Hmm. So the 'tree of knowledge' was an allegory? But don't you usually argue against allegorical interpretation of scripture? Or as a believer are you allowed to choose which bits you take literally?
  13. Standard memberKellyJayonline
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    29 May '10 07:46
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    does this sound a little sexist to anyone but me? does it say that the woman was stupid and she was tricked but the man knew better but chose to follow the woman out of the goodness of his heart? πŸ˜€
    Personally, I think not only did the man knew better, he was more than
    likely the one that told the woman the rules to begin with. I think that he
    wanted something out of it, or he wouldn't have allowed it to occur.
    Kelly
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    29 May '10 08:14
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Hmm. So the 'tree of knowledge' was an allegory? But don't you usually argue against allegorical interpretation of scripture? Or as a believer are you allowed to choose which bits you take literally?
    Well, I think there is something very problematic about your criticism. There is an assumption that the literal interpretation is somehow more true than the allegorical. Such a claim is easily disproved. George Orwell's Animal Farm is quite clearly true as an allegory of the Stalin purges, not as a real historical claim about pigs usurping control of a farm. Just because a story is an allegory, does not mean it is less true.
  15. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    29 May '10 09:05
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Well, I think there is something very problematic about your criticism. There is an assumption that the literal interpretation is somehow more true than the allegorical. Such a claim is easily disproved. George Orwell's Animal Farm is quite clearly true as an allegory of the Stalin purges, not as a real historical claim about pigs usurping control of a farm. Just because a story is an allegory, does not mean it is less true.
    I make no such assumption, my comment was directed at Freaky, who in previous threads has assured me that he takes the bible as a literal and factual record of historical events. And even then, I don't see how you manage to take my comment as an assumption that a literal interpretation is 'somehow more true than the allegorical'. You should really read a post before you respond to it, dude.
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