1. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    14 Sep '07 18:41
    Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, demons and angels, spirits and all the other schemes and idiosyncrasies.

    What makes Christianity's version of Spiritual Truth any more accurate than the other dubious invetions of humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?
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    14 Sep '07 18:531 edit
    post deleted because apparently intelligent discourse isn't welcome in this OP's precious thread.
  3. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    14 Sep '07 19:08
    Originally posted by darthmix
    Before this thread gets going I'd like to remind everyone to avoid the fallacy of consequences of a belief, the description of which I'll quote here from the Nizkor Project:

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-consequences.html

    [b]The Appeal to the Consequences of a Belief is a fallacy that comes in the following patterns:

    1. X is t ...[text shortened]... ing a claim that most people believe that X is true to be evidence for X being true.
    [/b]
    Stop blubbering up my thread you heathen.
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    14 Sep '07 22:14
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, dem ...[text shortened]... f humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?
    Just out of curiosity. If someone gives you a solid answer what will you do with your new found knowledge?
  5. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    14 Sep '07 22:392 edits
    Originally posted by HumanHeaven
    Just out of curiosity. If someone gives you a solid answer what will you do with your new found knowledge?
    Incorporate it into my understanding of the universe, what else?

    I'll type this slow so everyone can follow along. Here's as close as I can come to an analogy of how I use knowledge/information. I have this bucket and it's full of water. I carry this bucket everywhere. I need to keep this bucket full of water in case there's ever a fire that I need to put out. Don't ask why, just know that keeping this bucket full is a priority in my life. Strangely enough, water disappears out of this bucket faster than evaporation or minor spillage can account for. I keep having to fill up the bucket on a regular basis and this is something of an annoyance. I can still go about my life and keep the bucket full. However, this is more work than I would like and I constantly look for ways to improve the situation. I ask, repeatedly, out loud, to anyone that will listen, "What's wrong with this bucket?! How come I'm losing water?" Nobody gives me a good answer... that is until you come along... with a keen eye and brilliant analytical mad skillz, you spot a crack in the side of my bucket that I'd never noticed before, "There's your problem!" you exclaim, "Your bucket has a leak!"... I feel sure that I would have noticed something as simple as a leak and immediately set about proving or disproving your hypothesis... I evaluate your keen observation using proven quantitative and qualitative empirical methodology and conclude that my bucket is, in fact, leaking and thank you for your most gracious help. I will then proceed to take necessary steps to fix the leak in my bucket. In fact, I may even take your observation and build off it by further inspecting the bucket. I will probably even modify or replace the bucket to give me the best possible water carrying recepticle and minimize the potential for similar problems to arise in future. I will forever be greatful that I ran into you and that you helped me with one of the key issues in my life.

    However, should you be wrong about the leak in the bucket, I will, with a very high degree of probabilty, call you an idiot.
  6. hirsute rooster
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    14 Sep '07 23:15
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Incorporate it into my understanding of the universe, what else?

    I'll type this slow so everyone can follow along. Here's as close as I can come to an analogy of how I use knowledge/information. I have this bucket and it's full of water. I carry this bucket everywhere. I need to keep this bucket full of water in case there's ever a fire that I ...[text shortened]... in the bucket, I will, with a very high degree of probabilty, call you an idiot.
    You're still walking around with a leaky bucket?

    I'll give you one of my buckets if you want. They are guaranteed not to leak - I can even turn your leaky bucket, into one of mine. It just takes faith.

    Now, take a deep breath and UPTURN YOUR BUCKET (I'll hold your hand and help you if you'd like).
    Feel the water around your ankles ... feel it?
    Your bucket is now empty and CAN NEVER LEAK AGAIN.

    YOU ...

    are HEALED.
  7. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    15 Sep '07 00:531 edit
    Originally posted by orangutan
    You're still walking around with a leaky bucket?

    I'll give you one of my buckets if you want. They are guaranteed not to leak - I can even turn your leaky bucket, into one of mine. It just takes faith.

    Now, take a deep breath and UPTURN YOUR BUCKET (I'll hold your hand and help you if you'd like).
    Feel the water around your ankles ... feel it?
    Your bucket is now empty and CAN NEVER LEAK AGAIN.

    YOU ...

    are HEALED.
    Thank you brother, I am truly blessed, you have solved my bucket problem with effortless grace. You are obviously touched by Jesus.


    Rec'd.

    Edit: Great, just great. I've been carrying this bucket full of water around for years and as soon as its empty my stuff catches on fire.
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    15 Sep '07 01:07
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate


    Edit: Great, just great. I've been carrying this bucket full of water around for years and as soon as its empty my stuff catches on fire.
    That's precisely why orangutan's solution is crap. You are a human being, in virtue of which you must navigate the world as it is represented in your set of beliefs. To the extent that you wish to survive, you cannot simply shed all of your beliefs as if they were burdens instead of essential assets. You should have known better.
  9. Standard memberRBHILL
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    15 Sep '07 01:29
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, dem ...[text shortened]... f humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?
    There is a movie comming out called 10,000 B.C. but I know that is just Holleywood.
  10. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    15 Sep '07 01:33
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    There is a movie comming out called 10,000 B.C. but I know that is just Holleywood.
    Do you swear by Jesus that you really got married?
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    15 Sep '07 01:35
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, dem ...[text shortened]... f humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?
    At rhe risk of being called an idiot, is it possible that all major religions are saying the same thing? If you take the names out of the way, and get around some of the misinterpretations, they do pretty much say the same thing.
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    15 Sep '07 01:43
    Originally posted by Varqa
    At rhe risk of being called an idiot, is it possible that all major religions are saying the same thing? If you take the names out of the way, and get around some of the misinterpretations, they do pretty much say the same thing.
    What is your definition of a "major" religion? What of "minor" religions? Are they just as valid?
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    15 Sep '07 13:54
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, dem ...[text shortened]... f humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?
    I think for a religion to be credible, it must have certain elements.

    1. A religion in question must show where we came from and where we have been and where we are going in relation to God. For example, it must show how we were created/evolved, how God has interacted with mankind throughout time, and where God has brought us today, and where we are going. Anything short of this raises disturbing questions such as why was God interactive yesterday but not today in the affairs of men or is God interactive today in the affairs of men but not yesterday, or why does God have no future plans for his creation? Thus one is then somewhat obligated to find an ancient religion of some kind that has survived in some form or another that is still relevant in the affairs of men today.

    2. A religion that is credible must ground itself in truth. For example, the Bible is seen as having truth. Examples include historical truths, spiritual truths and/or the prophetic word that can be interpreted as having taken place or could potentially take place. Granted, some may argue that not all of the Bible is grounded in truth, however, it is grounded enough in truth so as to be believed by many in modern times. Usually this "truth" is put to the test by a religions holy book such as the Bible/Quran etc, etc.

    3. A relgion must show God desires to relate to mankind on some level. For example, a religion that teaches that God does not interact with mankind, for whatever reason, is essentially dead. Why bother oneself with a God who does not bother himself with us? In effect, such a God would be dead to us even if he/she existed. The reasons as to why God even bothers with mankind must then be addressed. For the Christian it is because God is a God of love and desires us in a relational aspect.

    4. A religion must show God interacting with mankind in a meaningful way and on a large scale. A God only interested with a certain group of people is essentially dead to those outside the group. For example, perhaps a tribe in Africa worships a God that no one outside the tribe worships nor does this God seem to show any desire to reach out to the rest of makind. So if you are not born inside the tribe you might as well not even bother with their gods.

    So from these criteria we arrive at a rather short list. Off the top of my head major religions that come to mind in the world today are Christianity, Islam, Judism, Hinduism, and Buddism. It does seem interesting, however, that he God of the Bible seems to dominate the stage of the major world religions of today. Go figure?
  14. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    15 Sep '07 14:46
    Originally posted by Varqa
    At rhe risk of being called an idiot, is it possible that all major religions are saying the same thing? If you take the names out of the way, and get around some of the misinterpretations, they do pretty much say the same thing.
    No, this is actually a sensible approach. It certainly If you take all of the religions developed over human history and search for commonality you may be able to develop a strong hypothesis as to the nature of God. At least you will be doing something worthwhile in exploring humanities quest for spiritual truth. It certainly beats blindly accepting someone else's version of the truth.

    I can tell you for sure there's a God. I can tell you that I've had experiences that make me feel there is something bigger than me in this universe that needs to be explored. I'm not alone in this feeling and gathering common themes around humanities quest to define the nature of God will, at the very least, help you come up with the right questions to ask and seek answers to.
  15. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    15 Sep '07 15:07
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think for a religion to be credible, it must have certain elements.

    1. A religion in question must show where we came from and where we have been and where we are going in relation to God. For example, it must show how we were created/evolved, how God has interacted with mankind throughout time, and where God has brought us today, and where we are go ...[text shortened]... od of the Bible seems to dominate the stage of the major world religions of today. Go figure?
    So if I decide that I've had a spectacular spiritual connection with a bowl of pudding I can't call my spiritual revelation a religion unless I fulfill your criteria?

    OK, let's see:
    1. Obviously we all came from pudding... cosmic pudding, but pudding nonetheless. God has taken the pudding and shaped it into all we see around us. Ultimately, as part of the great spiritual cycle, we will return to pudding and be one with God. God, in fact, is the pudding that holds reality together. He has shaped our universe as we would build a house, damn a river, or otherwise change our environment (and for similar reasons).

    2. Truth, always a difficult thing to define as it varies from perspective. Truth is relative as are morals and ethics. Still as puddingology is simple it is closer to truth. We don't focus on historical issues, prophets and other man made issues. We simply feel our connection with the great spiritual cosmic pudding. Afterall, what could possibly make you feel better than a nice bowl of pudding. Clearly pudding brings you closer to God.

    3. Puddingology's basic principles are simple, be pudding like in your approach to life. Pudding is maleable, flowing and brings happiness and nourishment to everyone. I've never come across a pudding heathen, a pudding hater or doubter. Puddingology has given us the most simple of spiritual truths, God wants us to flow through life taking obstacles in stride and to be good too each other. No extraordinary goals, just pudding, God through pudding.

    4. Puddingology takes a simple approach to God's role in humanities path through life. Basically, when you make pudding, you don't mess with it, just enjoy it, savor it's taste and feel. This is all God, the great cosmic pudding wants from us. His interaction with us will always be subtle. He wants the same thing for all of us, eternal pudding peace.

    Hence, by your criteria, puddingology should be among the major religions of the world. All hail the Great Spiritual Cosmic Pudding.

    Pudding unto you my Brother.
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