Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
I don't agree with your statement, "All other religions are the story of man's attempt to reach God and build a path to God." I don't see how you can say this, many other religions have accounts of God(s) interacting with humanity. Meddling, fornication, slaughter and love, all good stuff and all part of humanities varied religious inventions. Take ...[text shortened]... art within? A true examination of what fulfills us, makes us happy, and brings us peace?

Just to be argumentative, why must love be a central concept when choosing a religion? Why not inner peace, afterall, your own spirit and soul is the only thing you have complete control over? HECATE

And what is inner peace if it is not being filled with the fullness of love and being complete? Love does not have to be the central value but for me any religion that does not place love , compassion , moral behaviour and understanding as supreme values is not really owrth knowing about. You may feel that love isn't that important in this world. I happen to think that all of humanities problems are caused by a lack of love.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I noticed that both you and whodey are not really interested in the truth but more in whether you would enjoy following a religion. Both of you made statements to the effect that if you did not like the God described by the religion then you would not accept the religion as fact and that you would only accept a religion in which the God in question fit th ...[text shortened]... r example.
You are essentially dictating to God what he must be and creating facts from desire.

I noticed that both you and whodey are not really interested in the truth but more in whether you would enjoy following a religion. WHITEY

Me thinks you separate love and truth too easily. Those who follow hate , revenge , hardness of heart , violence etc etc tend to live in ignorance and darkness. Their hearts and minds are closed to beauty , appreciation of others , gentleness , justice. They live in fear and are quick to judge others. This is not truth . They do not see people. They do not see humanity. We do not see when our eyes are full of hate , revenge , and harshness of heart. Do you not strive to be more open , more compassionate , more understanding? Of course you do. Why? Because this is the truth.
People who love others and love life and don't fear are more fulfilled and wiser because of it. Truth and love are intertwined. It's not a matter of enjoyment. You don't have to be a Christian to know this , you just have to look harder.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I noticed that both you and whodey are not really interested in the truth but more in whether you would enjoy following a religion. Both of you made statements to the effect that if you did not like the God described by the religion then you would not accept the religion as fact and that you would only accept a religion in which the God in question fit th ...[text shortened]... r example.
You are essentially dictating to God what he must be and creating facts from desire.

You are essentially dictating to God what he must be and creating facts from desire. WHITEY

.....and the deepest desires of our hearts are for love , to love and be loved. I wonder who put that there?

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
I don't agree with your statement, "All other religions are the story of man's attempt to reach God and build a path to God." I don't see how you can say this, many other religions have accounts of God(s) interacting with humanity. Meddling, fornication, slaughter and love, all good stuff and all part of humanities varied religious inventions. Take ...[text shortened]... art within? A true examination of what fulfills us, makes us happy, and brings us peace?

I don't see how you can say this, many other religions have accounts of God(s) interacting with humanity. Meddling, fornication, slaughter and love, all good stuff HECATE

My starting is to discount all minor religions like greek mythology since they don't display the same sophistication or level of moral /spiritual understanding as the major ones. They are basically paganistic in nature and places gods in the material world in a cumbersome antiquated way. The major religions talk about an altogether more cosmic , eternal and invisible God who exists as One and is spiritual and exists as independent of the universe. Basically religion moved on to bigger, grander things. It basically comes down to the Judaistic religions or the Eastern religions in the end , and of all these Christianity is the only one that stresses man's powerlessness to save himself and what God does about it. It's the only religion that says man cannot save himself without God initiating salvation.

Originally posted by whodey
And did these gods require those influenced to give the "OK"? Did these gods require faith to be exhibited in them before working or meddling in their lives? In other words, was free will required for God to work in their lives? It seems to me that the God of the Bible is much more gentlmenly. Also, compare the meddling of Zeus and his brethren to that of Christ. Who is the better God/man?

The God of the Bible was sure "gentlemenly" to the Midianites, the people of Jericho, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Comparing Zeus to Christ is disingenous; compare Zeus to OT Monster God and tell me who is the better God (lots of "meddling" in the OT, ain't there?). I'd say if you compare Hercules to Christ, Herc did a lot more impressive things in his 12 Labors than walking on some water.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I don't see how you can say this, many other religions have accounts of God(s) interacting with humanity. Meddling, fornication, slaughter and love, all good stuff HECATE

My starting is to discount all minor religions like greek mythology since they don't display the same sophistication or level of moral /spiritual understanding as the major ones. . It's the only religion that says man cannot save himself without God initiating salvation.

You have obviously never bothered to read any of the major works of Greek mythology and legend. The idea that the Illiad or the Odyssey or dozens of other works by the ancient Greeks with religious overtones "don't display the same sophistication" as other cultures' religious books is laughable in the extreme.

You also don't know anything about Eastern religions and it shows. Most don't have a God as you describe such a thing at all.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You have obviously never bothered to read any of the major works of Greek mythology and legend. The idea that the Illiad or the Odyssey or dozens of other works by the ancient Greeks with religious overtones "don't display the same sophistication" as other cultures' religious books is laughable in the extreme.

You also don't know anything abou ...[text shortened]... Eastern religions and it shows. Most don't have a God as you describe such a thing at all.

I think it's certain kind of sophistication I'm on about really. In some ways Greek Mythology is very beautiful and rich but it still has a crudeness about it (like placing gods at the top of mount Olympus) that means it's just not a credible option as the truth.

Eastern religion does have gods ( as in hinduism) but my understanding is that there is still this appreciation of God (brahman) as an underlying , eternal , spiritual reality. I got all this from reading Bede Griffiths who is a Hindhu who writes about religions , your argument is with him not me. Look him up , he seems pretty learned to me.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I think it's certain kind of sophistication I'm on about really. In some ways Greek Mythology is very beautiful and rich but it still has a crudeness about it (like placing gods at the top of mount Olympus) that means it's just not a credible option as the truth.

Eastern religion does have gods ( as in hinduism) but my understanding is that there i ...[text shortened]... ut religions , your argument is with him not me. Look him up , he seems pretty learned to me.

Bede Griffiths is a Benedictine Monk (i.e. a Catholic), not a Hindu. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_Griffiths

A better source for Hindu beliefs might be an actual Hindu, preferably a learned one. I have a copy of the Upanishads with an Introduction by Swami Nikhilananda. While there are several strains in Hinduism, in all that I know of the Supreme Brahman isn't a God but is everything i.e. is one and without a second. Or as Swami Nikhilananda puts it:

Therefore there can be, in truth, no such thing as a Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer of the universe, endowed with omnipotence, omniscience, and other qualities. p. 28

All that we experience and we are ourselves are merely manifestions of Brahman.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Bede Griffiths is a Benedictine Monk (i.e. a Catholic), not a Hindu. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_Griffiths

A better source for Hindu beliefs might be an actual Hindu, preferably a learned one. I have a copy of the Upanishads with an Introduction by Swami Nikhilananda. While there are several strains in Hinduism, in all that I know of t ...[text shortened]... 28

All that we experience and we are ourselves are merely manifestions of Brahman.

And all of what you have said is on a level of understanding above and beyond gods living on mountain tops , which was precisely my point.

Originally posted by knightmeister
And all of what you have said is on a level of understanding above and beyond gods living on mountain tops , which was precisely my point.

If you think that all the ancient Greek religion was was "gods on a mountain top", then you are merely showing your extreme ignorance yet again. Which is precisely my point; that rather than making ill-informed and grossly incorrect statements regarding other belief systems it would behoove you to actually learn something about them. Or alternatively, not mention them at all as you have no understanding of them.

Originally posted by no1marauder
If you think that all the ancient Greek religion was was "gods on a mountain top", then you are merely showing your extreme ignorance yet again. Which is precisely my point; that rather than making ill-informed and grossly incorrect statements regarding other belief systems it would behoove you to actually learn something about them. Or alternatively, not mention them at all as you have no understanding of them.

I was under the strange illusion that the greek gods lived on Mount Olympus or some fantasy temple somewhere. Or was it Neptune that lived under the sea? Now I know that Hollywood dresses things up but I can't help but think of Jason and the Argonauts when I think of Greek Mythology. The idea that Zeus might be real seems more proposterous than the Flying Spaghetti Monster existing to me. You can't really be expecting me to take this seriously ? Put me straight if you like but I don't know of any serious spiritual seekers of the truth saying that Zeus exists ....or is this David Icke's latest idea?

Originally posted by knightmeister
I was under the strange illusion that the greek gods lived on Mount Olympus or some fantasy temple somewhere. Or was it Neptune that lived under the sea? Now I know that Hollywood dresses things up but I can't help but think of Jason and the Argonauts when I think of Greek Mythology. The idea that Zeus might be real seems more proposterous than the Fly ritual seekers of the truth saying that Zeus exists ....or is this David Icke's latest idea?

You are under the influence of a lot of strange delusions to be sure. The existence of Zeus is no more implausible than the existence of OT Monster God.

Your snotty attitude aside, the point is you are prone to making broad statements about other beliefs systems which you know virtually nothing about. Your rather hilarious reliance on the "Hindu" Bede Griffiths is a pathetic reminder of how little you have actually looked into any other belief systems but the narrow Christianity you believe in.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I don't see how you can say this, many other religions have accounts of God(s) interacting with humanity. Meddling, fornication, slaughter and love, all good stuff HECATE

My starting is to discount all minor religions like greek mythology since they don't display the same sophistication or level of moral /spiritual understanding as the major ones. ...[text shortened]... . It's the only religion that says man cannot save himself without God initiating salvation.

I really struggle with how you can just discount 'minor' religions like Greek mythology. No1 has already bashed you on this issue, but, I think haphazardly discounting thousands of years of religious history is a mistake.

You have mentioned earlier that most of humanities problems are as a result of a lack of love. I don't necessarily disagree, but, we are also shocking out of step with the natural world, deeply out of touch with our inner selves and constantly battling stressful situations. In peace and looking into one's own soul seems vital to any spiritual devlopment. It's all very good to reach out to your fellow man, but, if you're not in touch with yourself, you'll never get anywhere.

Yo illustrate this perspective:

"How can you get very far,
If you don't know Who You Are?
How can you do what you ought,
If you don't know What You've Got?
And if you don't know Which to Do
Of all the things in front of you,
Then what you'll have when you are through
Is just a mess without a clue
Of all the best that can come true
If you know What and Which and Who.
--Benjamin Hoff, from the Tao of Pooh "

Religion and philosophy doesn't have to be deep or particularly intricate.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Humanity has been around for a million+ years (slighty more than the 6000 the bible implies). Just to be fair, let's say it's 50,000 years of humanity plodding around the Earth. As a conservative estimate, let's say that humanity has devloped at least 15,000 Gods over our time on Earth. With this comes elaborate rituals, sacrifices, good, evil, dem ...[text shortened]... f humanities creative psyche? Why is Christianity any more valid than Hinduism for example?

For reasons you refuse to acknowledge as valid.

For example; no other religious system, (that you accurately describe as developed by man), has the incarnation of the only true and living God, and His subsequent death and resurrection. These are elements of the Christian faith that are not, and cannot be duplicated by any other belief system.

Originally posted by josephw
For reasons you refuse to acknowledge as valid.

For example; no other religious system, (that you accurately describe as developed by man), has the incarnation of the only true and living God, and His subsequent death and resurrection. These are elements of the Christian faith that are not, and cannot be duplicated by any other belief system.

No other religious system than Islam calls their God Allah either. So what?