@sonship said'Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; A stranger, and not your own lips.'
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Ah yes, the Atheist appeals once again to the authority of Scripture.
I think my answer is the same, although I did not know you mean of boasting OF the altruistic ACTS immediately itself. I think I thought of BOASTING in some other arena rendering the altruistic act null and void.
I don't think, then, the act of liberality is null and void entirely ...[text shortened]... iving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.' [/quote]
(Proverbs 27:2)
'But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil.'
(James 4:16)
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe concept of what is an 'evolutionarily perfect world' is highly subjective.
Don't like the suffering of children as a reason for disbelief in the Christian God? How about the suffering of animals?
'The sufferings of millions of the lower animals throughout almost endless time' are apparently irreconcilable with the existence of a creator of 'unbounded' goodness. (Charles Darwin).
This is perhaps better explained by Michael Almeida:
...[text shortened]... f #1 is true then either #2 or #5 is true, but not both. This is a contradiction, so #1 is not true.
For instance, is the maximization of pleasure perfction... Or is the maximization of virtue? And, is it the maximization of virtue within people who are using free will the highest form of the perfection of virtue..?
And what of pleasure..? To what extent do we use one another when we engage in pleasure..? Is pleasure actually pleasurable to all...?
It is hard to humor this post because it is just a free floating criticism and a massive adjustment of the goalposts, IMO.
@philokalia saidThe goal posts here change, they are like compasses with no true north, rudders with no particular direction for the ship to steer, plumb lines without a real up and down, they can be whatever is needed, or wanted since the lines for themselves, or for that matter others, can be draw as the wind moves. Nothing absolute here, we know that absolutely.
The concept of what is an 'evolutionarily perfect world' is highly subjective.
For instance, is the maximization of pleasure perfction... Or is the maximization of virtue? And, is it the maximization of virtue within people who are using free will the highest form of the perfection of virtue..?
And what of pleasure..? To what extent do we use one another when we eng ...[text shortened]... is post because it is just a free floating criticism and a massive adjustment of the goalposts, IMO.
@kellyjay saidYour moral compass is a device for channelling your subjective judgements into your decisions, opinions and actions just like everyone else's. It's your prerogative to call your personal opinions "true north", but doing so is profoundly subjective and little more than strutting.
they are like compasses with no true north, rudders with no particular direction for the ship to steer, plumb lines without a real up and down, they can be whatever is needed, or wanted since the lines for themselves, or for that matter others, can be draw as the wind moves. Nothing absolute here, we know that absolutely.
@kellyjay saidThat's right.
The goal posts here change, they are like compasses with no true north, rudders with no particular direction for the ship to steer, plumb lines without a real up and down, they can be whatever is needed, or wanted since the lines for themselves, or for that matter others, can be draw as the wind moves. Nothing absolute here, we know that absolutely.
Wherever the argument goes, a new series of objections are made.
I think this is why I have always enjoyed discussion with people who firmly believe in things...
They are forced to eventually draw a line in the sand and stick to it. They are forced to acknowledge the unpleasant realities that come with the truth that they believe in.
There's something spineless & not serious about believing in nothing and simply raising objections about everything. When you are in a discussion with people who believe only in the convenient, immediate material truths and avoid anything deeper unless it's attacking someone else's ideas of the deep, the whole bottom of the discussion is ready to fall out at any minute.
For this reason... Pick and choose what you respond to. That is my advice.
Let's try to not get sucked into a circle of accusations & counter-accusations that spill away from the topic because then it could result in personal attacks that don't help anybody.
@philokalia saidThis description fits none of the regular theist or atheist posters in this community. Are you talking about the Debate Forum? Or some other website you are active on?
There's something spineless & not serious about believing in nothing and simply raising objections about everything. When you are in a discussion with people who believe only in the convenient, immediate material truths and avoid anything deeper unless it's attacking someone else's ideas of the deep, the whole bottom of the discussion is ready to fall out at any minute.
@philokalia saidIt is hard to humour you, period.
The concept of what is an 'evolutionarily perfect world' is highly subjective.
For instance, is the maximization of pleasure perfction... Or is the maximization of virtue? And, is it the maximization of virtue within people who are using free will the highest form of the perfection of virtue..?
And what of pleasure..? To what extent do we use one another when we eng ...[text shortened]... is post because it is just a free floating criticism and a massive adjustment of the goalposts, IMO.
My post was pertinent to the OP. No goalposts were moved.
@philokalia saidYou don't think, 'spineless & not serious about believing in nothing and simply raising objections about everything' is a descent into personal attacks?
That's right.
Wherever the argument goes, a new series of objections are made.
I think this is why I have always enjoyed discussion with people who firmly believe in things...
They are forced to eventually draw a line in the sand and stick to it. They are forced to acknowledge the unpleasant realities that come with the truth that they believe in.
There's s ...[text shortened]... spill away from the topic because then it could result in personal attacks that don't help anybody.
Believe it or not, atheists 'DO' believe in things. Just not the things you do. And I don't think questioning the existence of suffering is a pointless objection to the alledged existence of a perfect deity.
@philokalia saidPersonal attacks here can happen if you respond or not, it is very sad!
That's right.
Wherever the argument goes, a new series of objections are made.
I think this is why I have always enjoyed discussion with people who firmly believe in things...
They are forced to eventually draw a line in the sand and stick to it. They are forced to acknowledge the unpleasant realities that come with the truth that they believe in.
There's s ...[text shortened]... spill away from the topic because then it could result in personal attacks that don't help anybody.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI know the feeling!
It is hard to humour you, period.
My post was pertinent to the OP. No goalposts were moved.