Originally posted by @secondsonThere are two kinds of people in this world, which Jesus identified in different ways :
ToO and Rajk both, while continuously focused on "the words of Jesus", ignore the words of Jesus that flies in the face of the gospel they preach which is of the law.
These words of Jesus I believe were spoken by Jesus to just the type such as they are.
Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anis ...[text shortened]... mention of God's grace except as something to earn.
They strain at gnats and swallow camels.
- Sheep and Goats
- Wise and foolish virgins
- The man who built his house on the rock, the man who build his house on the sand
- the Good Samaritans, the Priest /Levite who look the other way
- the Rich Man who was selfish, Lazarus
- those interested in eternal life in the Kingdom of God, those interested in furthering their church doctrine
One group follows the commandments of Christ and will enter the Kingdom of God
The other group do not follow Christ commandments and are cast out.
Originally posted by @eladarRomans 4:5,6
Matthew 5
For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Originally posted by @eladarThe problem with those two is they're hyper-Jehovah's Witlesses.
The problem with Rajk and ToO isn't that they believe good works need to proceed from a person who has the holy spirit. Their problem is that they do not recognize sin. This reveals that they are not children of God.
Originally posted by @rajk999That's right.
There are two kinds of people in this world, which Jesus identified in different ways :
- Sheep and Goats
- Wise and foolish virgins
- The man who built his house on the rock, the man who build his house on the sand
- the Good Samaritans, the Priest /Levite who look the other way
- the Rich Man who was selfish, Lazarus
- those interested in eternal ...[text shortened]... enter the Kingdom of God
The other group do not follow Christ commandments and are cast out.
Those that enter the Kingdom of God by grace through faith, and those that seek to enter by there own self induced righteousness through works.
Originally posted by @secondsonPaul was making it a point that they didn't need to follow Jewish customs. Doing what God asks us to do is not work. Following Jewish custom is work.
Romans 4:5,6
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousn ...[text shortened]... e abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
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Originally posted by @secondsonI would be interested in references showing where Jesus said that.
That's right.
Those that enter the Kingdom of God by grace through faith, and those that seek to enter by there own self induced righteousness through works.
Failing that if you can point to me the passsage where Paul says it .. thanks
Bear in mind that:
... saved by grace through faith ..
is not the same as
... enter the Kingdom of God by grace through faith..
Plus where is this statement about
... self induced righteousness through works ...
Originally posted by @secondsonThose who do not know God will not receive grace.
That's right.
Those that enter the Kingdom of God by grace through faith, and those that seek to enter by there own self induced righteousness through works.
Lots of people like you have self proclaimed salvation. Too bad you don't make the call.
Originally posted by @eladarToo bad you dont make that call. Here is what the Bible says :
Those who do not know God will not receive grace.
Lots of people like you have self proclaimed salvation. Too bad you don't make the call.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (Titus 2:11 KJV)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 KJV)
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (John 1:9 KJV)
1. Gods grace is for all men
2. Christ died for the sins of the world
3. The light of Christ is in every man.
Clearly you have some misconceptions about what GRACE means. Gods grace does not guarantee anyone automatic entry into the Kingdom of God.
Originally posted by @rajk999No, I don't make the call either. All I can do is see what the Bible says and recognize that when people are in opposition to God they will not be saved.
Too bad you dont make that call. Here is what the Bible says :
[quote] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (Titus 2:11 KJV)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 KJV)
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into t ...[text shortened]... hat GRACE means. Gods grace does not guarantee anyone automatic entry into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus is here for all to choose. Obviously most are like you and reject him.
Originally posted by @eladarKeeping the law to attain righteousness is work. That's what Paul was talking about. Paul was not talking about Jewish customs.
Paul was making it a point that they didn't need to follow Jewish customs. Doing what God asks us to do is not work. Following Jewish custom is work.
Go read Galatians.
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Originally posted by @secondsonCan't get that out of your mind apparently, and because you think you have the correct interpretation you can sit there and tell me that because I don't share your interpretation I'm deluded in my conception of God.
Can't get that out of your mind apparently, and because you think you have the correct interpretation you can sit there and tell me that because I don't share your interpretation I'm deluded in my conception of God.
Your conception of God as condoning slavery based on God's prescription for slavery in Leviticus 25 is faulty. To condone something can't ...[text shortened]... , just and good and does not approve of slavery but allows it due to man's innate sinful nature.
Actually what I wrote was the following:
<< That passage flies on the face of your conception of God, so you delude yourself into believing that it doesn't say what it actually says...>>
Clearly this is not speaking to your conception of God being deluded. Rather that you delude your self into believing that Leviticus 25: 44-46 doesn't say what it actually says. Yet another example of your reading comprehension problems. Those problems being so severe and pervasive, no doubt they play a part in your inability to properly understand what scripture is or is not saying.
In Leviticus 25:44-46, God expressly gives permission to not only buy slaves, but to consider them as property and to bequeath them to offspring. By the very definition, this is a condoning of chattel slavery. Yet you delude yourself into thinking that it isn't.
Leviticus 25
44“ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life...
God is Holy, just and good and does not approve of slavery but allows it due to man's innate sinful nature.
If the OT depiction of God were truly "Holy, just and good", then slavery would not be permitted.
Your attempt to spin it as being allowed "due to man's innate sinful nature" doesn't hold water and is an example of your disingenuousness. For one God does not state that in that passage nor anywhere else for that matter. Since you believe that the whole of scripture is the word of God, you are effectively putting words in God's mouth. For another there are scores of examples of God prohibiting all manner of actions despite "man's innate sinful nature". Yet in Leviticus 25:44-46, God not only doesn't prohibit chattel slavery, but expressly condones it.
"The truth will make you free".
Originally posted by @secondsonThere you go. If you follow the Law to attain righteousness you are bound for hell. You are right such a person is failing to get to heaven by work.
Keeping the law to attain righteousness is work. That's what Paul was talking about. Paul was not talking about Jewish customs.
Go read Galatians.
It is not what I am saying at all.