Red-Letter Atheists v Black Letter Christians

Originally posted by @rajk999
Jesus took all the worlds nations and divided them into two groups. You claim that only the faithful are the sheep and the unfaithful are the goats.

Jesus said no such thing. Nowhere in that very long description of judgment was the word faith ever used. Not one solitary time. The works of these groups is all that matters.

In both groups there would ...[text shortened]... d works are welcomed into the Kingdom of God.

Jesus was clear on how he will judge all people

We’re just going around in circles. Believe whatever you want.

But if you’re relying on good works for salvation, you’re in for a very unpleasant surprise. I hope you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour and believe in Him.

Originally posted by @romans1009
We’re just going around in circles. Believe whatever you want.

But if you’re relying on good works for salvation, you’re in for a very unpleasant surprise. I hope you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour and believe in Him.

Actually, what I think you’re missing in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats (and it may be because I didn’t explain it well enough,) is that those who do the good works identified by Christ already have saving faith in Him.

You seem to view faith in Christ and good works as an either/or proposition. They’re not. Those who believe in Christ and have placed their faith in Him do good works because they are “new creatures” after accepting Christ. Why do you think they don’t?

A person whose life is not changed for the better by accepting Christ and who does not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit did not accept Christ into their hearts. It’s why acceptance of Christ means believing in the heart or having a sincere, committed and self-sacrificing belief, not simply “head belief.”

See Romans 10:9.

Originally posted by @romans1009
The Bible is clear that the judgments of the saved and damned are separate judgments. We already discussed the Judgment Seat of Christ and Great White Throne Judgment. Have you forgotten already?

The Bible is clear that salvation is by faith in Christ and faith in Christ alone. See John 3:16, Romans 10:9, Jesus Christ’s own words in the Gospels and nu ...[text shortened]... and it is obvious by implication that a changed life for the better and good works would follow.

No such separate judgement of the saved and the damned are in the Bible.
Those are just your church doctrines.

Annanias and Sapphira were new creatures indeed ... lol 😀

Originally posted by @romans1009
Actually, what I think you’re missing in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats (and it may be because I didn’t explain it well enough,) is that those who do the good works identified by Christ already have saving faith in Him.

You seem to view faith in Christ and good works as an either/or proposition. They’re not. Those who believe in Christ and have pl ...[text shortened]... a sincere, committed and self-sacrificing belief, not simply “head belief.”

See Romans 10:9.

Nonsense. Jesus said nothing about saving faith in Matt 25
More church mumbo jombo.

Originally posted by @rajk999
No such separate judgement of the saved and the damned are in the Bible.
Those are just your church doctrines.

Annanias and Sapphira were new creatures indeed ... lol 😀

Please read about the Judgment Seat of Christ and Great White Throne Judgment.

On your other point, why can you not understand that a Christian will continue to occasionally sin because he or she is still living in the flesh? That was the case with Annanias and Sapphira and it is the case with every Christian. I’ve been saying the same thing for two weeks.

You seem to think that a Christian cannot ever sin again, and you diminish and make a mockery of Jesus Christ’s blood sacrifice on the cross with this false belief.

Annanias and Sapphira as Christians were not immune from sinning, and when they lied to the Holy Spirit, God struck them down as an example to early Christians about how grievous a sin it was.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Nonsense. Jesus said nothing about saving faith in Matt 25
More church mumbo jombo.

Jesus Christ spoke about salvation by faith throughout the Gospels. The fact He didn’t repeat it in the Parable of Sheep and Goats doesn’t mean it’s not true.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Nonsense. Jesus said nothing about saving faith in Matt 25
More church mumbo jombo.

So in addition to the other ways you diminish and disrespect Jesus Christ that I mentioned previously, I guess we can add worshipping Him and singing praises to Him in church with fellow believers.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Please read about the Judgment Seat of Christ and Great White Throne Judgment.

On your other point, why can you not understand that a Christian will continue to occasionally sin because he or she is still living in the flesh? That was the case with Annanias and Sapphira and it is the case with every Christian. I’ve been saying the same thing for two w ...[text shortened]... Spirit, God struck them down as an example to early Christians about how grievous a sin it was.

You are the one going around in circles.
Anyone can sin but only Jesus Christ will determine the consequences of such sin.
You think that you can continue to sin and still get eternal life.
That is your error.

This is clearly stated in the Bible even for Christians with HS gifts etc.

Originally posted by @rajk999
You are the one going around in circles.
Anyone can sin but only Jesus Christ will determine the consequences of such sin.
You think that you can continue to sin and still get eternal life.
That is your error.

This is clearly stated in the Bible even for Christians with HS gifts etc.

All Christians will still occasionally sin because they are living in the flesh and in a sinful world. That doesn’t mean they lose their salvation. If they did, no Christian could be saved.

You’re still operating under the old system of justification and righteousness by the law and don’t recognize the New Covenant that God made with man by Jesus Christ’s shed blood.

Even Jews who lived under the law before Christ’s sacrifice and the New Covenant could not keep the law and had to sacrifice animals to atone for their sins.

Why can’t you understand this?

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

(Galatians 2:16-21)

Originally posted by @romans1009
All Christians will still occasionally sin because they are living in the flesh and in a sinful world. That doesn’t mean they lose their salvation. If they did, no Christian could be saved.

You’re still operating under the old system of justification and righteousness by the law and don’t recognize the New Covenant that God made with man by Jesus Chri ...[text shortened]... the law and had to sacrifice animals to atone for their sins.

Why can’t you understand this?

Nothing there is in the bible.
Paul was clear that there are some Christians who sin and they will be destroyed.
This he said several times
If you dont like that then take it up with Paul

Originally posted by @romans1009
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found ...[text shortened]... God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

(Galatians 2:16-21)

Fine. But what does that have to do with a born-again Christian continuing to sin?
Nothing
Paul said he will face judgment and may be destryoed.
Jesus is the judge
Apparently you want to judge for yourself that all Christians will get eternal life

Originally posted by @rajk999
Nothing there is in the bible.
Paul was clear that there are some Christians who sin and they will be destroyed.
This he said several times
If you dont like that then take it up with Paul

Man is not justified by the law under the New Covenant. You act as though Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death and God’s New Covenant with man never happened.

Even before the New Covenant, no one could completely abstain from sinning, which is why they sacrificed animals to atone for their sins.

God never expected man to be able to keep the law. The purpose of the law was to show man his need for a Saviour.

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.“

(Galatians 3:22-26)

Originally posted by @rajk999
Fine. But what does that have to do with a born-again Christian continuing to sin?
Nothing
Paul said he will face judgment and may be destryoed.
Jesus is the judge
Apparently you want to judge for yourself that all Christians will get eternal life

All Christians will be saved because Christians, by definition, have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and have put their trust in Him.

That is all that is required for salvation. Good works will follow as evidence that someone’s faith and belief in Christ is sincere, but good works are not a requirement for salvation. If they were, Jesus Christ would not have told the thief on the cross that he would be with Christ in paradise after the thief expressed faith that Christ was divine. The thief had no opportunity to do any good works.

I think you want to be responsible for your own salvation when salvation is actually a gift from God and not something one earns.

Your foolish and sinful pride is hindering your walk with Christ.