Redeemed, Propitiation, Savior

@sonship said
@FMF

I am not so concerned about you greeting another Christian brother; I'd be more concerned that you prey on children and intellectually disabled and vulnerable people, like people contemplating suicide for example, with stories of your angry hateful vengeful God figure torturing people who do not heed and accept your teaching.

That's just your wild imagination.
You need to imagine the worst.

No. It's not my imagination, "wild" or otherwise. It is my shrewd observation along with my sharp memory. I genuinely think you are a harmless ideologue UNLESS you use your religious beliefs to prey on children and intellectually disabled or vulnerable people, such as people contemplating suicide. That would give me cause for concern.

@sonship said
You need to imagine I am preying on people.

If you are, then it would most likely be morally unsound.

I don't "need" to think you do; I just wonder whether it might be what you do away from here. There are some signs of it in the way you conduct yourself.

It makes me laugh when you try it on me. You run through the same series of little tricks in almost the same order over and over again. It is sometimes almost as if you are referring to a checklist or you've internalized the approach.

@sonship said
The gimmick is FMF trying to introduce a red herring that instead of the verses I insist people read some book by Witness Lee.

If you are denying that, a couple of months ago, you stated that there was a book published by your cult that you insisted non-local church Christians - which is every Christain here apart from you - should read if they want to avoid the risk of "damnation", then that is interesting. Are you denying it?

@suzianne said
You, sir, are a master of irony.

You are one of the most hate ridden individuals I have ever come across.

@eladar said
You are one of the most hate ridden individuals I have ever come across.

Take a look in the mirror.

@wolfgang59 said
Take a look in the mirror.

Not all folk cast a reflection.

😴

@KellyJay

I may get time write something on each of the verses in the OP.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This is more then incredible, that God has gone to such an extent to justify us.

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21 RcV)

A picture is worth a thousand words. Jesus brought up the sign of Him dying on the cross as the bronze serpent lifted up on a pole in the wilderness. That is the judged Satan as the poison old serpent under judgment.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up. That everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (John 3:14,15)

Christ died as "the Lamb of God" elsewhere in the NT.
But here He likens His own death to the story in Numbers 21:4-9.

The serpent bitten Israelites were dying. God told Moses to make a bronze serpent for their sake, for their healing. He was to lift up the bronze serpent on a pole for all to see. If the bitten people just looked upon that bronze serpent on the pole, they would be healed and live.

The symbolism must mean mankind was injected with the nature of the Devil, poisoning all man, mixing Satan's sinful nature with the good creation of God from the fall of Adam.

Christ was made "in the likeness of the flesh of sin" (Rom. 8:3). He was incarnated as a man in the form of a fallen Satan poisoned man yet without the sin in the flesh. In form only He came resembling the Satan poisoned humans. Yet He had no sin.

"Him WHO DID NOT KNOW SIN ... He [God] MADE SIN ... on our behalf ... that WE ... might become the righteousness of God in Him."

What a joy that we can stand on this truth and boldly proclaim that God has made us in Christ Himself - "the righteousness of GOD ... in Him".

What a Redeemer, terminating the problem problem, in letting the Devil and we to be judged in Himself on the cross under God's wrath. And that that we might be made "the righteousness of God" in Jesus Christ.

What human imagination could have concocted such a concept. It is the revelation of God out of Christ and His apostles.

@wolfgang59 said
Take a look in the mirror.

Pot calling the kettle black

@sonship said
@KellyJay

I may get time write something on each of the verses in the OP.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This is more then incredible, that God has gone to such an extent to justify us.

[quote] Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf ...[text shortened]... ion could have concocted such a concept. It is the revelation of God out of Christ and His apostles.

God is perfect in His goodness, justice, holiness, all of the attributes of God have to be satisfied in perfect harmony in everything He does. He could ever justify us in our sinful state just because He wanted too even with His love, mercy, and grace in play! Just forgiving sin for mercy sake would undo justice, therefore just doing that would only be an unjust action without satisfying justice too.

The cross of Christ is where God deals with us in perfect righteousness and mercy, He raising from the dead and giving us His Holy Spirit brings us into God's life. Which is why no one can come to God except through Jesus Christ, anyone attempting to get in any other way will come up completely short missing the mark of the high calling of God.

@KellyJay

God is perfect in His goodness, justice, holiness, all of the attributes of God have to be satisfied in perfect harmony in everything He does. He could ever justify us in our sinful state just because He wanted too even with His love, mercy, and grace in play! Just forgiving sin for mercy sake would undo justice, therefore just doing that would only be an unjust action without satisfying justice too.

Yes. I am forgiven not because my dept has been overlooked by God.
I am forgiven because my dept has been PAID by Christ, in Christ and on His cross.

I have been trying as you, for years to help some new and visiting readers to see this and understand. God is not interested that we grovel and beg for forgiveness. Or shall I say God is most interested that we believe.

The cross of Christ is where God deals with us in perfect righteousness and mercy, He raising from the dead and giving us His Holy Spirit brings us into God's life. Which is why no one can come to God except through Jesus Christ, anyone attempting to get in any other way will come up completely short missing the mark of the high calling of God.

Yes, what an offering to God. What a once and for all sacrifice for all mankind for all world history.

"[Christ] Who does not have daily need, as the high priests do, to offer up sacrifices first for his own sins and then for those of the people; for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself." (Heb. 7:27)

Once for all the sacrifice of Himself to pay the dept for the sins of the world.

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." (Heb. 9:14)

One offering of Himself to cleanse us from "dead works" to serve in the sphere of "the living God".

" ... But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested for the putting away of sin through the sacrifice of Himself." (Hebrews 9:16)

One sacrifice for all mankind. How utterly meaningful to God Almighty this one life, death, and resurrection.

"By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL." (Heb. 10:10)

But this One, having offered ONE SACRIFICE for sins, sat down forever on the right hand of God.

Henceforth waiting until His enemies are made the footstool for His feet,

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." (Heb. 10:12-14)

I like this verse 14. By one sacrifice Christ has:

1.) Placed us forever in a righteous position before God - justified unto eternity.

2.) Placed us in the process of "being sanctified" - made holy dispositionally by imparting His holy life and nature into our being.

What a Lord and Savior, the Son of God.

@sonship said

The cross of Christ is where God deals with us in perfect righteousness and mercy, He raising from the dead and giving us His Holy Spirit brings us into God's life. Which is why no one can come to God except through Jesus Christ, anyone attempting to get in any other way will come up completely short missing the mark of the high calling of God.

Yes, what ...[text shortened]... ly by imparting His holy life and nature into our being.

What a Lord and Savior, the Son of God.

I think many confuse sanctification for the process of salvation, as in we must walk right to get right. This instead of getting right to walk right.

@KellyJay

I think many confuse sanctification for the process of salvation, as in we must walk right to get right. This instead of getting right to walk right.

Let me ask you something like this.

You came to Jesus one day. You received Him into your heart as Lord. Previously you had no inclination to love the word of God, the Bible. Somehow, you notice that your taste has been changed. You have an inclination to read His word that you previousy did not have. You enjoy to take in His word, even every day.

Is this to you something that happen by a process of sanctification in you ?

Have you noticed other leanings and inclinations want to drop off. And other godly ones want to come up in your living?

Isn't this also a sanctification process you are being involved in?

@sonship said
@KellyJay

I think many confuse sanctification for the process of salvation, as in we must walk right to get right. This instead of getting right to walk right.

Let me ask you something like this.

You came to Jesus one day. You received Him into your heart as Lord. Previously you had no inclination to love the word of God, the Bible. Somehow, you n ...[text shortened]... t to come up in your living?

Isn't this also a sanctification process you are being involved in?

The difference began at once and it changed me, that process is still going on.