@Ponderable saidThey've clearly lost the plot.
I wrote this originally as a reply in debates, but consider it better to be placed here:
So thepreceding discussion went something like:
A: Islam is especially suited to breed terrorists
B: islam is a religion of peace
In fact Islam is (as nearly all religions) of the opinion, that only they have the truth, and Christians go to Hell for sure (as do Jews and heathe ...[text shortened]... think about religious zealots who kill in the bname of their religion in relation to the teachings?
@Rajk999 saidIn fact protestants also burned women as "witches" in the name of christian belief..
Wrong about the Christians. Christians know that the Catholics are the killers in the Inquisition. Catholics and Protestants are chalk and cheese. People can murder in whatever name they want. The big question is "Is it condoned by the Holy Books".
Yes for Islam.
No for all other religions.
@Ponderable saidWell in that case the same principle applies. They were mistaken as there is no support for that in the teachings of Christ or the Apostles.
In fact protestants also burned women as "witches" in the name of christian belief..
@Ponderable saidIt is worth repeating that Catholic and Orthodox Christians themselves regard the Bible as tertiary, whereas Muslims regard the Koran as primary. Just because something is not written in the Bible, does not mean it is not official policy. For Catholic and Orthodox Christians, ecumenical councils come before the Bible, in the order of precedence, and if ecumenical councils say to burn witches and heretics at the stake and invade the Holy Land to free it from infidels, then this is "God's Will for man", officially sanctioned mass murder. Therefore, Christianity was not a religion of peace for many many centuries, and it did not turn itself into a religion of peace from within--it was actively prevented from wreaking such havoc by secular revolutions which dis-established the state from the church and took away its temporal power to imprison and torture people to death.
@Rajk999
In fact people understanding themselves as "christians" did murder in the name of "christianity".
I agree that it is not what I understand from biblical writing.
I also agree that the Quran and the hadithe do urge to kill infidels.
And I observe that even Bhuddists where the "pure teaching" would require utmost peacefulness do terrorist attacks.
@Ponderable saidThe more that I have reflected on my own religion, the more that I believe it should be about peace. I understand that participating in a war for self-defense is acceptable, but my Bishop stated that waging war is the greatest sin... And I am trying to apply this to more aspects of my life.
I wrote this originally as a reply in debates, but consider it better to be placed here:
So thepreceding discussion went something like:
A: Islam is especially suited to breed terrorists
B: islam is a religion of peace
In fact Islam is (as nearly all religions) of the opinion, that only they have the truth, and Christians go to Hell for sure (as do Jews and heathe ...[text shortened]... think about religious zealots who kill in the bname of their religion in relation to the teachings?
But I will be non-judgmental about those who do end up going to battle for things... I understand it is as a common masculine vice. Men feel some sort of call to be warriors. Somehwere I heard it compared to actually childbirth for men - it provides such strong feelings of meaning for them, perhaps through the camaraderie.
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@Ponderable saidWords like extreme, zealots, religious, conservative, liberal, progressive, left, or right, when applied to people, put people in a box where their individuality is ignored; they stop being people and tend to either be a punching bag, or some justification for hate, or simply someone to make us feel better about ourselves. If we limit talking about what they did or didn’t do, that turns them into good or bad guys, our friends and foes wouldn’t be so large, and the bad activity, not people, would be the problem. If we stop hating someone due to the labels, then innocents would not get caught up, as people look for enemies due to this or that. Groupthink is a dangerous thing if you are on the wrong end of it. Imagine buying a car because you wanted to save the planet, but now people are shooting them for something you had nothing to do with!
I wrote this originally as a reply in debates, but consider it better to be placed here:
So thepreceding discussion went something like:
A: Islam is especially suited to breed terrorists
B: islam is a religion of peace
In fact Islam is (as nearly all religions) of the opinion, that only they have the truth, and Christians go to Hell for sure (as do Jews and heathe ...[text shortened]... think about religious zealots who kill in the bname of their religion in relation to the teachings?
@Suzianne saidA good point.
Did you ever hear of the Crusades?
We also have Pope Innocent 3rd (believe) wiping out the Waldenses in France - is that not a kind of terrorism.?
Christian’s (in name) have been killing for centuries when it suited them - 80% of the Suropean combatants in WW2 for example ?
@medullah saidComparing or equating what the Catholic Church did in the Crusades, to the mo of Islam, shows a lack of understanding, and indeed a bias. The bible has two crystal clear religions. These are Judiasm and Christianity.
A good point.
We also have Pope Innocent 3rd (believe) wiping out the Waldenses in France - is that not a kind of terrorism.?
Christian’s (in name) have been killing for centuries when it suited them - 80% of the Suropean combatants in WW2 for example ?
The RCC had a mandate to develop Christianity and to follow Christ and there is no instruction from the teaching of Christ to kill anyone. Islam follows Muhammed and there are clear instructions in the Quran and in the Haddiths to kill unbelievers and other infidels.
This is why the Pope stopped eventually, and it is why Islam will never stop the killing.
@medullah saidDont know anything about washing hands clean. Dont know what that means. I know the RCC did apologise for the killings in that period from 1500 or so. In the end God does the judging. Im no hater of the RCC. All religions are pretty much the same but Islam is by far the most dangerous. On judgment day Jesus was pretty clear on how the judging with play out, and there is nothing about religion or churches.
@Rajk999
Well by 1937 they still werent doing so well as cardinal pacelli, who went on to become pope , signed a concordat with Hitler (or doesn’t that count).
When are you suggesting the Catholic Church washed its hands clean then.?
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@Rajk999 saidEx 22:18.
Well in that case the same principle applies. They were mistaken as there is no support for that in the teachings of Christ or the Apostles.
However, as I have pointed out in other threads, the writings are tertiary in Christianity. What matters in Christianity is what the body of Christ says, and the body of Christ in the world is the Church. Christianity is whatever the Church says it is. If the Church says to burn witches then that is God‘s will for man, as far as Christians are concerned.
@moonbus saidI saw your post on that before, but I disagree in part. The truth about this is that the Roman Catholic Church has attempted to override the authority of Christ, and their followers have mistakenly gone along with them. Jesus said 'Follow Me' and 'keep my commandments'. Jesus never once said to kill anyone and always said to walk away from unbelievers. Clearly the early RCC was mistaken. In fact they are still mistaken with many of their doctrines. You are wrongly lumping all Christians with Catholics.
Ex 22:18.
However, as I have pointed out in other threads, the writings are tertiary in Christianity. What matters in Christianity is what the body of Christ says, and the body of Christ in the world is the Church. Christianity is whatever the Church says it is. If the Church says to burn witches then that is God‘s will for man, as far as Christians are concerned.