Why do I mention the error, in what persons are presenting?
Well this is the spirituality forum and when discussing religion and the spiritual life, there is the authority and there is the substitute authority, and any error in your teachings shall misdirect you away from true spiritual understanding and affect your ability to develop genuine love for God.
Error will have the person develop feelings of a sentimental nature, instead of acquiring genuine loving sentiments towards Godself.
The substitute authority is any teaching, that is presenting knowledge which is in error.
The substitute teaching is presenting error, because the compilers of that teaching are not qualified to determine what is actually true, and with their conditioned mind and superstitious disposition, they convince themselves that any thoughts and ideas coming from their minds are true.
And then they write these ideas and thoughts down, and then proceed to sign Gods name to these writings, saying that God has spoken to them, by way of an Angel or a voice coming from the darkness.
Many are seeking personal aggrandizement, and persons in positions of power are seeking control over the people.
You have to remember that thousands of years ago these person had very limited knowledge of even their secular situation, as well as their metaphysical.
The rulers knew, that whom ever had God under their thumb, had also the people under the thumb as well, so with that understanding they proceeded to give the people the law of the land and the law of God.
Now in India back then, Vedic influence was serving the people of India, but because of the age of Kali which started 5000 years ago Vedic knowledge was on the decline and religious principle were being ignored, and because India does not have a history of conquering others, the Vedic influence had not really left its borders, so the authority of the Vedic teachings more or less remained a hidden secret with India.
There was a large learning facility in Afghanistan at Kandahar at the time, and Vedic influence was established there, but as for other places it was mainly absent, and in that facility which was a university of some soughts, it has been suggested that the man Jesus travelled and studied.....and this is how he had far superior knowledge of God.
Anyway substitute religion instead, was presented far and beyond because of the influence of the rulers who were always conquering different places and taking their newly fabricated religion with them.
This new religion had everything a person desired, and the main feature for attracting initiates was the magical blood that would take away sins, even the sins that have not yet been perpetrated.
No other religion had a saviour that could raise the dead, walk on water and take away your sins so you can go straight to heaven, without actually living a spiritual life.
If you refused the free ticket to heaven, you would be found to be a witch and burned at the stake, also persons who were a little thoughtful and could see through the errors in this new religion, were accused of blasphemy if they exposed the errors in this new teaching..
Whilst all the blood flowed........ the real bonafide teachings of Vedanta, were being stolen or burned or hidden from the people, by the British and the Germans and others, for they could see that these perfect and authorized teachings of true religion, would easily expose the false substitute religions that were being spread all over the world.
Now in the 21st century this error is still being presented to-day, and people are still being presented with a free ticket to heaven and magical blood, that shall still take away all sins for all people for all times under all circumstances without having to live a spiritual life.
Error can easily be detected in any religious teaching, and the way to detect error is......take a massive amount of honesty vitamins, a massive amount of truthfulness vitamins, a massive amount of sincerity vitamins, take a massive amount of genuineness vitamins.....and you will be able to see clearly what is error, but that is only the beginning, because to actually be able to understand the spiritual knowledge presented by Vedanta, that often may be beyond the mind and senses, you must live the spiritual life for the purification to take affect, which will afford you with the spiritual insight necessary for developing higher understanding.
Without purification of the heart, the knowledge will remain unrealized knowledge, and will then lack the potency to elevate the person to the transcendental platform of self realization.
Once you have found all the erro remove it from your substitute religion, and what you have left follow that with your heart and soul. But if you find that you do not have much left, then simply take to the First,Original, Bonafide, True and perfect religion of Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva... ( but be careful of unauthorized versions of Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva)
Originally posted by vishvahetuI don't recognize or submit to the "teachings of Vedanta". I am a theist but most certainly not a religionist. Your accusations of "error" are only valid if they are directed at other adherents to your chosen religion. These "errors" presumably can be declared if your fellow adherents fail to memorize the dogma, if they fail to conform or obey, if they entertain and act upon doubts etc. A person can only be in "error" in terms of the "teachings of Vedanta" if that person recognizes and submits to the "teachings of Vedanta".
Why do I mention the error, in what persons are presenting?
Well this is the spirituality forum and when discussing religion and the spiritual life, there is the authority and there is the substitute authority, and any error in your teachings shall misdirect you away from true spiritual understanding and affect your ability to develop genuine love for ...[text shortened]... ila Vyasadeva... ( but be careful of unauthorized versions of Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva)
Originally posted by FMFThen study Vedanta and come up to speed.....leave the error where you find it.
I don't recognize or submit to the "teachings of Vedanta". I am a theist but most certainly not a religionist. Your accusations of "error" are only valid if they are directed at other adherents to your chosen religion. These "errors" presumably can be declared if your fellow adherents fail to memorize the dogma, if they fail to conform or obey, if they entertain ...[text shortened]... gs of Vedanta" if that person recognizes and submits to the "teachings of Vedanta".
Originally posted by vishvahetuI have examined Vedanta and I have also read hundreds and hundreds of your posts. I don't recognize or submit to the "teachings of Vedanta". I am not a religionist. Your accusations of "error" and "dishonesty" in those who do not share your belief system are off target and not credible.
Then study Vedanta and come up to speed.....leave the error where you find it.
Originally posted by FMFYes, I find his approach consistently negative.
I have examined Vedanta and I have also read hundreds and hundreds of your posts. I don't recognize or submit to the "teachings of Vedanta". I am not a religionist. Your accusations of "error" and "dishonesty" in those who do not share your belief system are off target and not credible.
Hardly a way to talk to people about spirituality. Positive and negative would be fine, or the over-positive ,(like I tend to be at times), but not this consistently conscending, negative tone.
Also , I mentioned to him that spirituality should have humour in it. Sounds as if poor old Vishy hasn't had a laugh in 50 years!!
Originally posted by karoly aczelYour inalienable right to endorse or support whom you wish notwithstanding, your several attempts to be seen standing shoulder to shoulder with vishvahetu [somewhat condescending of you, I recall thinking, especially as you were seemingly doing it because he was making a fool of himself] probably hasn't done him any favours on reflection. As he has found his stride, with your encouragement, he has become more and more of a parody of a duckspeaking indoctrinator and the more his humanity and common decency has receded. Your words of reproach came too late, perhaps.
Yes, I find his approach consistently negative.
Hardly a way to talk to people about spirituality. Positive and negative would be fine, or the over-positive ,(like I tend to be at times), but not this consistently conscending, negative tone.
Originally posted by FMFDid you catch all my comments directed as vishva or only the posts in the last 2 weeks?
Your inalienable right to endorse or support whom you wish notwithstanding, your several attempts to be seen standing shoulder to shoulder with vishvahetu [somewhat condescending of you, I recall thinking, especially as you were seemingly doing it because he was making a fool of himself] probably hasn't done him any favours on reflection. As he has ...[text shortened]... ore his humanity and common decency has receded. Your words of reproach came too late, perhaps.
I certainly refute the claim that I have attempted to stand "shoulder to shoulder" with vishvahetu. If I come across like that then I may have been too generous, as you imply.
The times I have supported him, I also pointed out the error in calling people names, his delivery style, etc.
And perhaps the other reason of my defence of Vishva lies in his material. I like it, albeit being poorly presented.
Originally posted by vishvahetuI dont know about all these "truth pills". I dont think any amount of truth pills will make people firm believers. I think the person needs to have their own connection to the Divine first. Vedanta may explain these experiences to the adept , but the real scource of trtuh comes from within, devoid of all error. The only reason to study vedanta would be to appreciate the truth being presented in a different way. It is just another great bunch of stories, like the bible as far as I'm concerned. Why? Because it is so old, and I would like to see a decent modern interpretation of the vedic scriptures to prove that they actually work, and dont just make people into regurgitating robots.
Why do I mention the error, in what persons are presenting?
Well this is the spirituality forum and when discussing religion and the spiritual life, there is the authority and there is the substitute authority, and any error in your teachings shall misdirect you away from true spiritual understanding and affect your ability to develop genuine love for ...[text shortened]... ila Vyasadeva... ( but be careful of unauthorized versions of Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva)
edit: as usual, I liked most of your post but could feel the inevitable "but vedanta is the only truth"-type line coming at the end. And sure enough it did.
Originally posted by FMFI've encouraged lots of people on here for various reasons.
I have been observing the way you have encouraged vishvahetu pretty much all along. Personally I think it has done him no favours.
At times I wanted to defend vishva because there was more to the content of his posts than the responders were making out.(imo 🙂 )
Like I've said, I've always implored him to stop his negative,down-putting approach.
Originally posted by karoly aczelTell yourself what you want. And while your at it, continue to gush publicly over the haphazard and often incoherent spiritual bric-a-brac fed to you by an utterly misanthropic poster whose own spiritual journey and insights have not even equipped him with a properly functioning degree of common decency, communication skills, genuine or eclectic curiosity, or any semblance of what most thoughtful people would adjudge to be an authentic take on the human condition.
Like I've said, I've always implored him to stop his negative,down-putting approach.
As for me, the most impressive spiritual people I have met in my life have also been simply impressive people too, in no small measure due the balance and healthy level of doubt and humility their brand of spirituality imbues them with. One is left wondering what kinds of ideas and people have impressed you. We know that you endorse most of the spiritual messages that have shaped vishvahetu and his spiritual personality.
Originally posted by FMFLike I said in my first reply to this little sequence: I may have come across more generous than I intended. Do you think I should apologize for this?
Tell yourself what you want. And while your at it, continue to gush publicly over the haphazard and often incoherent spiritual bric-a-brac fed to you by an utterly misanthropic poster whose own spiritual journey and insights have not even equipped him with a properly functioning degree of common decency, communication skills, genuine or eclectic curiosity, or an ...[text shortened]... ndorse most of the spiritual messages that have shaped vishvahetu and his spiritual personality.
No, I only endorse parts of his philosophy. The same with christianity.
Again if I have come across to anyone as anything else, it was not intended that way.
Now I will leave this, FMF. Unless of course you have something different to add. You have made your point.
Though I cant help but feel you've left a dry taste in my mouth and come across in a bit of a less humourless fashion that I've usually come to asscociate with your posts.
Originally posted by karoly aczelA dry taste in your mouth? Perhaps you are uncomfortable with the feeling of someone being unimpressed with you.
Though I cant help but feel you've left a dry taste in my mouth and come across in a bit of a less humourless fashion that I've usually come to asscociate with your posts.
Originally posted by karoly aczelThere is a decent modern version of the Vedic teachings and it has been available for over fifty years, the ( Srimad Bhagavatam ) by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada..... and the ( Bhagavad Gita As It Is) by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada....and many many more.
I dont know about all these "truth pills". I dont think any amount of truth pills will make people firm believers. I think the person needs to have their own connection to the Divine first. Vedanta may explain these experiences to the adept , but the real scource of trtuh comes from within, devoid of all error. The only reason to study vedanta would be ...[text shortened]... itable "but vedanta is the only truth"-type line coming at the end. And sure enough it did.
Karoly.... the "truth vitamins" are an analogy to emphasize the need to throw away all manner of deceit when taking to the spiritual life.
Many persons who embrace speculation in their spiritual life, take with them into their religious affairs, their meat eating, their intoxication, their drugs, their women, their porn magazines, their gambling, their loyalty to the football club and so on......and this just makes a farce of the whole thing and cheapens the endeavour.
But because of dishonesty, they will say its perfectly correct to cheapen their spirituality, and continue even when presented with the reasons why it should not be done.
When I show people where the error is in their religious life for their benefit, they take it as an insult and attack the messenger, so I tell them if they hold on tightly to their error, then they are being dishonest with themselves and everyone else who they present their error to.
Originally posted by vishvahetuWhile not doubting your sincerity, vishvahetu, once again I have to point out to you that you are misusing the word "dishonesty". As long as the "reasons [something] should not be done" you offer fall outside other people's belief systems, they are not - for all intents and purposes - "reasons" at all. They are simply details from your religionist code. As such they are relevant only to those who recognize, submit and conform to the same codified conjecture as you. I see no one on this forum who is pretending to disagree with you. Do you? No. You are using the word "dishonesty" incorrectly.
But because of dishonesty, they will say its perfectly correct to cheapen their spirituality, and continue even when presented with the reasons why it should not be done.