1. Standard memberAgerg
    The 'edit'or
    converging to it
    Joined
    21 Aug '06
    Moves
    11458
    17 Apr '11 16:522 edits
    So many time we atheists (or non-believers) have been hit with the old fundie chestnut:

    "Until you prove God doesn't exist, your belief is as much a position of faith as mine"
    (or derivatives of such) and usually we then try to convince the fundie who said this that we could apply the same reasoning to the tooth fairy, Gandalf, the FSM, and so on... to no avail.


    The thing is though, *I do have a proof that God doesn't exist* and I'm just too shy/scared to share it with anyone

    Can you prove I don't have such a proof?
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 17:19
    Originally posted by Agerg
    So many time we atheists (or non-believers) have been hit with the old fundie chestnut:

    "Until you prove God doesn't exist, your belief is as much a position of faith as mine"
    (or derivatives of such) and usually we then try to convince the fundie who said this that we could apply the same reasoning to the tooth fairy, Gandalf, the FSM, and so on... ...[text shortened]... too shy/scared to share it with anyone

    [b]Can you prove I don't have such a proof?
    [/b]
    utterly and completely futile.
  3. Standard memberAgerg
    The 'edit'or
    converging to it
    Joined
    21 Aug '06
    Moves
    11458
    17 Apr '11 17:262 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    utterly and completely futile.
    God doesn't exist: 1
    God does exist: -nil-

    ;]
  4. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 17:331 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    God doesn't exist: 1
    God does exist: -nil-

    ;]
    does god exist = yes if you believe it
    god doesn't exist = yes thats correct if you believe it

    Now dear agers i suggest you dawn your best robe, light the candles, offer up incense
    to gandalf and petition the gods or logic and reason, for it seems that yours is a belief,
    like any other religious belief. How vewwy vewwy intwesting.
  5. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
    Joined
    02 Feb '07
    Moves
    51439
    17 Apr '11 17:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    does god exist = yes if you believe it
    god doesn't exist = yes thats correct if you believe it

    Now dear agers i suggest you dawn your best robe, light the candles, offer up incense
    to gandalf and petition the gods or logic and reason, for it seems that yours is a belief,
    like anmy other religious belief. How vewwy vewwy intwesting.
    does god exist = yes if you believe it

    Believing something doesn't make it real.
  6. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 17:411 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    [b]does god exist = yes if you believe it

    Believing something doesn't make it real.[/b]
    slaps his head, it makes it real to those who believe it. 🙂
  7. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
    Joined
    02 Feb '07
    Moves
    51439
    17 Apr '11 17:53
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    slaps his head, it makes it real to those who believe it. 🙂
    I don't doubt that, it's nonsensical though.

    I believe something exists so therefore it exists!! Does the same approach work with unicorns?
  8. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 17:571 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I don't doubt that, it's nonsensical though.

    I believe something exists so therefore it exists!! Does the same approach work with unicorns?
    yes i think it must. take someone who is suffering from schizophrenia, the aural or
    visual hallucinations are very real to them? can we therefore say that they dont exist
    simply because they are the product of aberration in the mind? they are very real to
    the sufferer although existing solely in the mind.
  9. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
    Joined
    02 Feb '07
    Moves
    51439
    17 Apr '11 18:00
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes i think it must. take someone who is suffering from schizophrenia, the aural or
    visual hallucinations are very real to them? can we therefore say that they dont exist
    simply because they are the product of aberration in the mind? they are very real to
    the sufferer although existing solely in the mind.
    Are you saying belief in God is akin to a mental illness?
  10. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 18:02
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Are you saying belief in God is akin to a mental illness?
    no, i am saying that reality can exist solely in the mind.
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
    Joined
    02 Feb '07
    Moves
    51439
    17 Apr '11 18:24
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    no, i am saying that reality can exist solely in the mind.
    This is true, but there are somethings no matter how hard you believe or how much you convince yourself they are true, they are not. For instance, i could take a large dose of hallucinogenic drugs and convince myself i could fly. I climb to the top of a 20 storey building and throw myself off, will my beliefs make me soar like an eagle or am i going to plummet to the ground like a stone???
  12. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    17 Apr '11 19:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes i think it must. take someone who is suffering from schizophrenia, the aural or
    visual hallucinations are very real to them? can we therefore say that they dont exist
    simply because they are the product of aberration in the mind? they are very real to
    the sufferer although existing solely in the mind.
    I don't think the average theologian would accept this as an adequate mode of existence to justify the unqualified assertion "God exists." However, I do think that belief in deity can produce all of the earthly effects of actual existence. In other words, God is so great He can work His wonders without actually existing.🙂
  13. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 19:15
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    This is true, but there are somethings no matter how hard you believe or how much you convince yourself they are true, they are not. For instance, i could take a large dose of hallucinogenic drugs and convince myself i could fly. I climb to the top of a 20 storey building and throw myself off, will my beliefs make me soar like an eagle or am i going to plummet to the ground like a stone???
    most probably you shall come under the influence of gravity and accelerate towards
    the earth at a speed of 9.81 meters per second and as the energy dissipates on the
    ground, you may more than likely feel a little queasy as a consequence.
  14. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    17 Apr '11 19:212 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    I don't think the average theologian would accept this as an adequate mode of existence to justify the unqualified assertion "God exists." However, I do think that belief in deity can produce all of the earthly effects of actual existence. In other words, God is so great He can work His wonders without actually existing.🙂
    this is entirely the point for i am not trying to assert anything for the existence of God,
    I am merely trying to demonstrate that belief is akin to a reality. All i have ever
    stated is that we can draw inferences about the natural world which seem to be
    indicative of intelligence and design. Nor can these inferences be disputed other than
    by stating, I dont believe that is so, and we are back to Agers offering up incese and
    dear Noobster carrying an effigy of Dawkins on a large pole! and Hamilton on a
    pilgrimage to Darwins house.
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
    Joined
    02 Feb '07
    Moves
    51439
    17 Apr '11 19:28
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    this is entirely the point for i am not trying to assert anything for the existence of God,
    I am merely trying to demonstrate that belief is akin to a reality. All i have ever
    stated is that we can draw inferences about the natural world which seem to be
    indicative of intelligence and design. Nor can these inferences be disputed other than
    ...[text shortened]... carrying an effigy of Dawkins on a large pole! and Hamilton on a
    pilgrimage to Darwins house.
    this is entirely the point for i am not trying to assert anything for the existence of God

    Yes you are, this is what you said -

    does god exist = yes if you believe it


    How is that not trying to assert God exists?
Back to Top