Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
A. You may disagree with the significant role these four principles of establishment [bedrock ethics "to base morality on] have played in the preservation and perpetuation of the human race; however, you may not disagree with my freedom to accept them as fact and to express them on this spirituality forum [thanks to the freedom Russ have given all site ...[text shortened]... belief and doubt that further discussion would prove constructive. Let's table it for now. -Bob
You may disagree with the significant role these four principles of establishment [bedrock ethics "to base morality on] have played in the preservation and perpetuation of the human race
That wasn't the question.
You put them forwards as foundational principles for a secular moral system... And most of them are not
even principles, let alone foundational ones.
It's equivalent to saying that one of the foundational principles of morality is cheese...
We don't even get to cheese not being relevant to the foundation of a moral system, because it is not a
principle, it's a [class of] objects/substances.
Your four 'principles' do not include any actual principles.
I get that you think that Marriage is a valuable and important institution.
That family is important.
That Military defence is important.
And I might even agree with you.
But they are not foundational principles of morality.
Take military defence for example.
We can take several potential actual foundational principles:
"Freedom is generally preferable to enslavement"
"Life is generally Preferable to Death"
ect.
And we can couple that with the knowledge that we live in an imperfect world where there are people who are
immoral who might like to take our stuff and enslave/kill us if they could.
And couple that with one of the foundations of the social contract we have with our national government's that
they should protect us from external threats.
Thus we gain a moral imperative for the government to build and maintain a military capable of defending their
citizens from external threats. [or if that's not possible, achieve the same through allying themselves to a greater
power that shares the same moral ethos]
So I can agree [in broad brush terms] that there is a moral imperative for governments to have the means to defend
their citizens from external threats.
But it is a result of a moral system that has foundational principles, not a foundational principle in and of itself.
you may not disagree with my freedom to accept them as fact and to express them on this spirituality forum
I am not disagreeing with your freedom to believe what you believe.
I am saying that those beliefs are wrong. And providing argument to support that position.
That is what we call debating.
You should try it sometime.
EDIT:
Q. Which spectrum is the most challenging to consider: eternity past or eternity future?
eternity past) ----------------------- [time/human history] ------------------------ (eternity future
A.?
In what context?
What are we supposed to be considering?
Do you presuppose that either or both actually exist?
What if there is neither an eternity past or an eternity future and time is in fact finite?