RJHinds Identifies Witness Lee's "False Teaching"

Originally posted by sonship
Yea, yea, I know ...

Popcorn, popcorn and drinks for sale...

Witness Lee is all well and good, but would rather eat popcorn watching one of his brother's films.

(* For the benefit of Hinds, this is a Bruce Lee joke).

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
your accusations of mocking are ludicrous, your willingness to attempt to utilise scripture to deny the very substance of the text deplorable.

your accusations of mocking are ludicrous, your willingness to attempt to utilise scripture to deny the very substance of the text deplorable.

Strong words.

Why do you think Ishmael MOCKED Isaac in the book of Genesis? He probably thought it was nonsense that Isaac was the proper heir and son of Abraham but he WAS.

He teased him. He disrespected him. He mocked him.
Afterall, it has been probably drummed into his head that his mother had born him to the prophet Abraham and that he, Ishmael was the real thing as far as a promise by God to Abraham was concerned.

All your criticism of our taking the Word of God at face value concerning the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is very much like that attitude of Ishmael toward Isaac.

You think you're the real inheritor of God. But funny, I can NEVER get you to tell us the simplest testimony of what God is like.

I expect you will not tell us because you don't know.
You just don't know the Spirit of God.
But you could if you would believe in Christ and receive Him.

But you're hoodwinked in to believing that Jesus was/is Michael an angel. This deception was deliberate to keep you from being saved. That is to bring you instead under the law of a religion - the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Least Hinds forgets too soon - Distinct yet not Separate - the Father, Son, Holy Spirit was what was taught by Brother Witness Lee

Certain of today’s fundamental Bible teachers are actually tritheistic, perhaps unconsciously. These teachers say not only that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct but also that They are separate. We can say that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct, but not that They are separate. We cannot separate the Son from the Father, or the Father and the Son from the Spirit, because all three coexist and coinhere. In the Gospel of John the Son said that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him (10:38; 14:10-11). Since the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son, how can They be separated? The Lord Jesus also said that He and the Father are one (John 10:30). This is further proof that the Father and the Son, although distinct, cannot be separated. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct but not separate, because they are three and yet one.

W.L.

Originally posted by sonship

your accusations of mocking are ludicrous, your willingness to attempt to utilise scripture to deny the very substance of the text deplorable.

Strong words.

Why do you think Ishmael MOCKED Isaac in the book of Genesis? He probably thought it was nonsense that Isaac was the proper heir and son of Abraham but he WAS.

He teased ...[text shortened]... being saved. That is to bring you instead under the law of a religion - the Jehovah's Witnesses.

This has nothing to do with Ishmael or Isaac and everything to do with the teachings that you follow. It is also nothing to do with me or my personal testimony as a Christian. You are thrashing about desperately trying to make something of nothing but its ok i have come to expect that of those who have an emotionally based faith for when I call upon them to reason they do exactly the same thing as you do, because their faith is also irrational.

As for Christ being the archangel Michael its a very reasonable and logical conclusion to draw from what we know of scripture. But of course you are trying to deflect away from the real issue here that being the iniquities of your leader and his dubious teachings.

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. - Pslam 83:18 - Kings James Bible

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
This has nothing to do with Ishmael or Isaac and everything to do with the teachings that you follow. It is also nothing to do with me or my personal testimony as a Christian. You are thrashing about desperately trying to make something of nothing but its ok i have come to expect that of those who have an emotionally based faith for when I call upon ...[text shortened]... way from the real issue here that being the iniquities of your leader and his dubious teachings.

This has nothing to do with Ishmael or Isaac and everything to do with the teachings that you follow. It is also nothing to do with me or my personal testimony as a Christian.

How can you be a "witness" for God if you don't get personal ?
A "witness" has to be somewhat personal about what he has witnessed.

You are thrashing about desperately trying to make something of nothing but its ok i have come to expect that of those who have an emotionally based faith for when I call upon them to reason they do exactly the same thing as you do, because their faith is also irrational.

I bear witness that in my experience and in the word the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Holy Spirit. I experience this.

Whether emotional or not I can say with the apostle John

"That which we have seen and heard we report also to you ..." (1 John 1:3)

I do not means that I touched the risen Savior or handled the Word of Life with my hands as the first apostles. But I do bear witness that within me I can detect no difference between God and Jesus, really. Just as Paul used these titles interchangeably, we too cannot discern any difference.

The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. And the Spirit of Christ Who has sealed us and given Himself to us as a pledge is Christ Himself. I witness to this.

And here is the confirming teaching in Paul's letter to my brothers in the church in Rome -

" But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him,

But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Romans 8:9-11)

I don't care about your unemotional intellectual reasoning Robbie.
Your good reasons cannot erase from my experience that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ and is CHRIST Himself indwelling my innermost being.

I don't care about your reasoning that this is nonsense.
I know the Spirit of God is Christ within me.
And even now He gives divine life to my mortal body. He empowers me to live above the sinful old man and the practices of the body as Iearn to set the mind on the spirit where the Spirit of God bears witness with me.

" The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. And if children, heirs also; on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him." (ROm. 8:16,17)

The Spirit of Christ which Paul says is Christ Himself, bears witness with my spirit. I am sorry if the Spirit of God does not bear witness with your spirit and that you think your reasoning is more trustworthy.

I reason along with reason that the Spirit of God bearing witness with me is Christ with me. He taught so.

As for Christ being the archangel Michael its a very reasonable and logical conclusion to draw from what we know of scripture.

Had the Watchtower teachers not told you that and simply told you to go read the Bible, any Bible, I doubt that you would have ever had that understanding.

You have that "understanding" because the desperate ones are the Jehovah's Witnesses , desperate to REASON that Christ is not God come to us as a man.

Don't turn to me and say I am desperate. Arian teachers and Charles Russell were desperate to reason that the Word that was God did not become flesh (John 1:1, 14).

But of course you are trying to deflect away from the real issue here that being the iniquities of your leader and his dubious teachings.

The real issue was for Hinds to demonstrate false teaching which has already been debunked.

The allegations of misconduct from a bitter disgruntled elder who once said - "I have become too high to ever be made low again" will be examined. And we will find likely NOTHING there either.

But while you are at it you can explain the Mason subliminal images in the illustrations published by the Watchtower Society which connect to the Freemasonary.

WHY SUBLIMINIAL IMAGES ARE IN JEHOVAHS WITNESSES PUBLICATIONS PT 11
YouTube

Subliminial Freemason signs and symbols in various Jehovahs Witnesses publications
YouTube

Does your governing body in the Jehovah's Witnesses put subliminal images in their children's books Robbie ?

Watchtower Subliminial images in childrens book, "Learn from the Great Teacher"- jehovahs Witnesses

YouTube

Originally posted by RJHinds
Witness Lee and Sal Benoit - DayStar Money Laundering

This is a telephone conversation between Witness Lee and Sal Benoit. Sal Benoit, an elder in the church in Boston, loaned $100k to fund DayStar, a company Witness Lee founded to produce and sell RVs. Because of Benoit's enormous investment, Witness Lee takes the liberty to describe a scheme that invol ...[text shortened]... is evidence of a cult leader's action to enrich himself at the expense of the gullible members.

I would like someone to tell me if it is legal to wire tape a phone conversation over state lines as in the conversion between Benoit and Lee?

Someone tell me if this is breaking the law to record a phone conversation for publication in this manner.

I feel that this is not even right to listen to this private conversation in this manner. This is scandal making. It appears purposely made to record some statements to make a verification of some accusations.

I do not feel comfortable to even listen to the recording which I suspect amounts to an illegal procedure that would not stand up in court.

So basically we should go to the Court of Law to see how accusations of mismanagement of finances was decided by a judge.

A tape recorded phone conversation which appears engineered to allow the accuser to create an arena of having made some serious claims which are used here is more like the stuff of Hollywood like scandal magazines.

As I research these matters, my question is "What did the court of law decide?"

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Witness Lee is all well and good, but would rather eat popcorn watching one of his brother's films.

(* For the benefit of Hinds, this is a Bruce Lee joke).

You didn't think I kew that?

By the way, I agree with you for a change. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
You didn't think I kew that?

By the way, I agree with you for a change. 😏

About evolution or the world being billions of years old?

Originally posted by sonship
I would like someone to tell me if it is legal to wire tape a phone conversation over state lines as in the conversion between Benoit and Lee?

Someone tell me if this is breaking the law to record a phone conversation for publication in this manner.

I feel that this is not even right to listen to this private conversation in this manner. This is sc ...[text shortened]... the recording which I suspect amounts to an illegal procedure that would not stand up in court.

Federal law permits recording telephone calls and in-person conversations with the consent of at least one of the parties. See 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d). This is called a "one-party consent" law. Under a one-party consent law, you can record a phone call or conversation so long as you are a party to the conversation. Furthermore, if you are not a party to the conversation, a "one-party consent" law will allow you to record the conversation or phone call so long as your source consents and has full knowledge that the communication will be recorded.

In addition to federal law, thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia have adopted "one-party consent" laws and permit individuals to record phone calls and conversations to which they are a party or when one party to the communication consents. See the State Law: Recording section of this legal guide for information on state wiretapping laws.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
About evolution or the world beings billions of years old?

No, not about that does he agree with you.

He only agrees with you about him finding it more profitable to watch Bruce Lee movies then to nourish and furnish his Christian life with one or two of books like the following by one Witness Lee.

Central Vision for Serving the Church, The
Centrality and Universality of Christ, The
Character
Christ and the Church Revealed and Typified in the Psalms
Christ and the Cross
Christ as the Content of the Church and the Church as the Expression of Christ
Christ as the Reality
Christ as the Spirit in the Epistles
Christ Being the Burden of the Gospel
Christ in His Excellency
Christ is God
Christ Making His Home in Our Heart and the Building Up of the Church
Christ our Portion
Christ Revealed in the New Testament
Christ versus Religion
Christian Life, The

Or some other spiritual books by Lee like -


Baptism in the Holy Spirit, The
Basic Lessons on Life
Basic Lessons on Service
Basic Principles Concerning the Eldership
Basic Principles for the Practice of the Church Life
Basic Principles for the Practice of the God-Ordained Way, The
Basic Principles for the Service in the Church Life
Basic Principles of the Experience of Life
Basic Revelation in the Holy Scriptures, The
Basic Training
Basis for the Building Work of God, The
Bearing Remaining Fruit, Vol. 1
Bearing Remaining Fruit, Vol. 2
Being Apt to Teach and Holding the Mystery of the Faith
Being Delivered from Religious Rituals and Walking according to the Spirit
Being Desperate and Living Uniquely for the Gospel
Being Renewed Day by Day
Being Up-to-date for the Rebuilding of the Temple
Believer's Experience of Transformation, The
Bible, The
Blessed Human Life, A
Blueprint and the Ground for the Building Up of the Church, The
Body of Christ, The
Bridge and Channel of God, The
Brief Definition of the Kingdom of the Heavens, A
Brief Presentation of the Lord's Recovery, A
Builder of the Pillars, The
Building of God, The
Building of the Church, The
Building Up of the Body of Christ, The
Building Work of God, The

Or any of the other 400 some rich publications which could be considerably more beneficial to his Christian walk then a Bruce Lee martial arts film.

Originally posted by sonship
Least Hinds forgets too soon - [b] Distinct yet not Separate - the Father, Son, Holy Spirit was what was taught by Brother Witness Lee

Certain of today’s fundamental Bible teachers are actually tritheistic, perhaps unconsciously. These teachers say not only that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct but also that They are sepa ...[text shortened]... and the Spirit are distinct but not separate, because they are three and yet one.

W.L.[/b]

Witness Lee seems to be teaching a form of Modalism.

The Heresy of Modalism

Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity.

Modalism was condemned by Tertullian (c. 213, Tertullian Against Praxeas 1, in Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. 3). Also known as Sabellianism, it was condemned as heresy by Dionysius, bishop of Rome (c. 262).

https://www.google.com/#q=the+heresy+of+modalism

Witness Lee seems to have just modified this heresy to fit his teachings.

Originally posted by sonship
No, not about that does he agree with you.

He only agrees with you about him finding it more profitable to watch Bruce Lee movies then to nourish and furnish his Christian life with one or two of books like the following by one Witness Lee.

[quote] [b]
Central Vision for Serving the Church, The
Centrality and Universality of Christ, The
Charact ...[text shortened]... could be considerably more beneficial to his Christian walk then a Bruce Lee martial arts film.

I don't know, Enter the Dragon was pretty awesome.

Have you by the way read all those books? (Not a challenge, but a query).

Originally posted by RJHinds
Witness Lee seems to be teaching a form of Modalism.

Witness Lee seems to be teaching a form of Modalism.

I realize that you are hedging now. From absolutely stating false teachings which you cannot prove you are now making a slippery manuevor to saying something "SOUNDS LIKE" a false teaching.

I see you Hinds. I see your move.

What book specifically on the Trinity by Witness Lee have you read through? There are a number of short ones which do not take long to read.

Which one of these have you read ?
None?
None at all?
Not one because you rely on someone else in cyberspace to tell you what to think about it?

Here are some short booklets about the Triune God specifically designed for a brief presentation of how the Trinity was spoken about by Witness Lee.

1.) The Clear Scriptural Revelation Concerning the Triune God

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/triune.html

2.) The Revelation of the Triune God According to the Pure Word of the Bible

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/revelation.html

3.) What a Heresy - 2 Divine Fathers, 2 Life Giving Spirits, & 3 Gods

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/heresy.html

4.) And you should (but probably will not) read this by one of Lee's co-workers.

Modalism, Tritheism, or the Pure Revelation of the Triune God

by Ron Kangus

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/modalism.htm

5. Another helpful booklet -

Concerning The Person of Christ by Witness Lee
Available at Amazon

https://books.google.com/books?id=CI8ISa2ZekEC&hl=en