rolling the dice

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"god has a bad track record with creation. three of his first key creations with freewill (adam, eve and satan)" -stellspalfie

stellspalfie, there were three creations: Angelic in Eternity (past), one of which was Lucifer (or Satan); the first
two Human Beings (within the Universe); the Pyramidal Food Chain to support itself and human life (on Eart ...[text shortened]... f the minds of men. God's a gentleman, however, indisposed to interfering with human will. (tbc)

if god knew satan would turn out so evil why did he go ahead and create him?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
There is a hell then!

Please be patient; we'll cover stellpalfie's entire initial post (providing interest continues).

Originally posted by stellspalfie
if god knew satan would turn out so evil why did he go ahead and create him?

God is eternal, self-existent with no beginning or end. At some point in eternity (past: before the creation of the first two human beings) God created the angelic host for reasons know only to Him [for His purpose]. In speaking to Job, He confirmed that the angels pre-existed creation because they were on hand to witness the 'fingerwork' of God:

"3 When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, 4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? 5 You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. 6 You made them rulers over the works of your hands; you put everything under their feet: 7 all flocks and herds, and the animals of the wild, 8 the birds in the sky, and the fish in the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. 9 Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!" Psalm 8:3-9 (NIV)

"4 Where were you [Job] when I [God] laid the earth’s foundation? Tell Me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— 7 while the morning stars [angels] sang together and all the angels [a] shouted for joy? Footnotes: [a.] Hebrew: the sons of God." Job 38: 4-7 (NIV) At this time the angels were undivided; Lucifer and one third on the angels had not yet rebelled in arrogance. In unison they, "Shouted for joy". Nothing takes God by surprise. The depth of our motives, intents and thoughts right now (on December 4, 2013) are known to Him. In eternity past, the selfsame omnipotence was aware of the eventual changes that would occur with one third of the angels losing their first estate. He allows for volition.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
God is eternal, self-existent with no beginning or end. At some point in eternity (past: before the creation of the first two human beings) God created the angelic host for reasons know only to Him [for His purpose]. In speaking to Job, He confirmed that the angels pre-existed creation because they were on hand to witness the 'fingerwork' of God:

"3 ...[text shortened]... that would occur with one third of the angels losing their first estate. He allows for volition.

God is eternal, self-existent with no beginning or end.

Prove it, Or stop stating it as fact.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
God is eternal, self-existent with no beginning or end. At some point in eternity (past: before the creation of the first two human beings) God created the angelic host for reasons know only to Him [for His purpose]. In speaking to Job, He confirmed that the angels pre-existed creation because they were on hand to witness the 'fingerwork' of God:

"3 ...[text shortened]... that would occur with one third of the angels losing their first estate. He allows for volition.

this doesnt answer the question. it repeats that god knew what satan was going to become. the question you need to answer is - why did god create a being he knew would become evil?? are you suggesting god knows what is gong to happen but is unable to change his actions?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
God being outside of the constraints of time, can look infinitely forward to events, thus rebellions against his universal sovereignty pose no threat, he simply makes a contingency plan which may be realised at some point in the future, this is in fact why Christ came to earth.

God had trust in the Christ, after all they had spent aeons together, ...[text shortened]... morality, you have the same choice as Adam and Eve, Satan or the Christ? What will you choose?

It's truly amazing how much you think you know about a god. Especially since all you have about the subject are words written down by HUMANS. A god never spoke to anyone here so you can NEVER know for sure whether a god exists or not.

It is a rationalization that because humans wrote down the words supposedly from a god but that alleged god does not communicate with us directly, those authors want us to simply believe them about THEIR communications with some god or other.

It is another example of 'I have a great bridge for sale in Brooklyn', "the check is in the mail" and so forth. You are basing your belief on the words of other humans. You have had no contact with a real god.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
God is eternal, self-existent with no beginning or end.

Replace "god" with a quantum vacuum, and simply let probability play its game over and over, and you may have yourself a deal.

Complex structures (like an intelligent super being) should not precede simple structures (like a ball of mass and energy). It's upside-down thinking!