Spirituality
21 Dec 09
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitTo hear many of the Christians around here tell it, he need do little more than profess belief in Jesus Christ as his savior. The wicked ways can continue.
What if one of them wanted to repent and turn from his/her wicked ways? Any chance for him?
21 Dec 09
thier is a great gulf to pass, the story of lazereth, who pleaded that someone come and ease his pain. and in revalations they do not get the choice to repent then as they are put in with goats even when they say when did we do this to you. so it seems that once your given to one side the cross over is not
21 Dec 09
5 edits
Originally posted by SwissGambitThey probably had their chance long long ago. Perhaps before the creation of man they had their chance to repent.
What if one of them wanted to repent and turn from his/her wicked ways? Any chance for him?
The legion of demons besought the Son of God to cast them into a herd of pigs. And they said:
"And behold, they [the demons] cried out, saying, What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here before the time to torment us?" (Matt. 8:29)
It appears that they expect to be tormented. This probably means the torment of eternal damnation.
They are just "passing time", getting into trouble of course, but just doing evil things in the mean time. Ultimately they have nothing to look forward to but the torment of God's judgment.
My opinion is that they, like the rebellious angels who followed Satan, had thier span of time to repent.
These demonic beings are the disembodied spirits of other creatures who were on the earth before Adam was created. God judged that world. They were deprived of thier physical bodies. And they therefore seek to demon possess the bodies of sinful humans. Like parasites they rebelliously seek a host in a human body. That is the nature of demon possession.
Jesus casts them out and into the bodies of pigs. I will not elaborate on the death of the pigs as they rushed down into the water. But it may be worth mentioning that the demonic spirits are called "the dead" in Revelation 20, I believe, distinct from the dead human beings.
And here is why. At the final judgment of the great white throne it says
"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to thier works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were all judged, each of them, according to their works, ... And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (See Rev. 20:12-15)
Notice that "the dead" who were given up by the sea are mentioned apart from "death and Hades" which gave up thier dead.
I submit that any dead humans who died by, say, drowning in the sea, should logically also be included in the dead given up by Hades. Hades is the place of all of the dead people.
Therefore "the dead" given up by the sea may mean the demonic beings who were destroyed on the earth before the creation of man. Their disembodied spiritual bodies were assigned by God to remain either in the sea or in the abyss covered by the sea.
I do not know that much. However, Jesus said that the demons as unclean spirits wandered about in "waterless places" seeking human bodies to infest and possess. They may mean that the rebellious disembodied spirits leave the sea somehow and seach on earth in waterless places for the physical bodies of sinners to replace their own bodies.
"When the unclean spirit goes out from a man, it roams thrugh waterless places, seeking rest, and does not find it.
Then it says, I will return to my house from which I came out. And it comes and finds it unoccupied, swpt, and decorated.
Then it goes and takes along with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter in and settle down there. And the last state ofthat man becomes worse than the first. This shall it be also with this generation." (Matt. 12:43-45)
"Waterless places" may indicate that the demons should be in the sea - "the sea gave up the dead which were in it" (Rev. 20:13)
This theory that the unclean demonic spirits belong in a watery confinement from which they rebeliously leave somehow is reinforce by the fact that amphibious frogs are symbolic of demons in the book of Revelation.
"And I saw, out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits as frogs;
For they are the spirits of demons ..." (Rev. 16:13,14a)
We all know frogs are amphibians and live partly in the water and partly on land. This may symbolize the evil demons come up out of the watery place and wander in "waterless places" to infest human bodies and commit many evils.
It is important that after a demon is expelled from you that you be filled up with the Holy Spirit of God and not simply swept clean and decorated with some kind of mere moral self improvement.
Rather we must let Christ make His home in our hearts through faith and be filled with the Son of God. He's the One with authority over every evil spirit.
21 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillIt is posts like this that make me despair for the human race.
They probably had their chance long long ago. Perhaps before the creation of man they had their chance to repent.
The legion of demons besought the Son of God to cast them into a herd of pigs. And they said:
"And behold, they [the demons] cried out, saying, What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here before the time to torment the Son of God. He's the One with authority over every evil spirit.
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitMan has an allotted time within which to make his decision about the Lord Jesus Christ; we call it 'life,' or that time between birth and death. If, after having reached the age of accountability (different for everyone), he repents--- changes his mind about the Lord Jesus Christ--- he is in union with Christ forever.
What if one of them wanted to repent and turn from his/her wicked ways? Any chance for him?
Conversely, if he opts to remain in his state of rejection and is in that same state upon his death, that man dies on his own and will subsequently stand before the Great White Throne judgment to give an account of life on the basis of his own works.
In ways not exactly clear, but insinuated nonetheless, the first creatures created by God had a similar opportunity: within a specified amount of time, make a decision about the Messiah. Those that did in a positive direction are considered God's messengers, the elect angels.
Those that rejected the Christ and instead threw their lot in with Lucifer were classified as fallen, demons. Similar to the 'dead man walking' syndrome, they are but transient vapors awaiting their final destination, determined to change the course of inevitability by virtue of preventing God from keeping His word.
They consider their only course of salvation that singular goal and work like hell (no pun intended) to ensure its reality. Had they accepted what God told them in the first place about Himself, they wouldn't be in this state.
Sounds familiar, eh?
21 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHi reject the idea that person is instantly in union with Christ forever, regardless of what may or may not occur, its a preposterous and unfounded statement and reminiscent of the nonsense that evangelic christians (even though they dont do much evangelising, ironic isnt it) have come to perpetuate. 'Take him into your heart and you will be saved'! Nonsense!
Man has an allotted time within which to make his decision about the Lord Jesus Christ; we call it 'life,' or that time between birth and death. If, after having reached the age of accountability (different for everyone), he repents--- changes his mind about the Lord Jesus Christ--- he is in union with Christ forever.
Conversely, if he opts to remain i in the first place about Himself, they wouldn't be in this state.
Sounds familiar, eh?
why?
1.Paul clearly states, that one can indeed lose ones faith,
(1 Corinthians 10:12) . . .Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. . .
(Hebrews 3:12-13) . . .Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God; but keep on exhorting one another each day, as long as it may be called “Today,” for fear any one of you should become hardened by the deceptive power of sin.
(Galatians 6:1) 6 Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted.
(Colossians 2:8) . . .Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ. . .
etc etc. thus it can be easily established from these verses that once you have accepted Christ, it is self evident that you can lose your standing, if that was not the case, these verse would make no sense.
further, it is compounded by the fact that one Needs to put up a 'hard'. fight for the faith,
(Romans 7:21-25) I find, then, this law in my case: that when I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, but I behold in my members another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my members. Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with [my] mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with [my] flesh to sin’s law.
thus within himself, Paul realised that it was a spiritual battle, between his fleshly desires and his spirituality. to state that one is instantly saved and does not need to do anything, is a mockery and an unreality!
21 Dec 09
OK, so far the answers are more or less what I expected.
But let's say a demon stopped wreaking havoc and making mischief, and instead stayed in hell, refusing to go out on marauding parties, or whatever it is that they do to pass the time, humbling himself in the fashion of the tax collector in Jesus' parable - beating his chest, crying, "God, have mercy on me, a sinner!"
Is there still no chance for redemption?
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitI think you're asking for apples and expecting oranges. For man, the deal is sealed between birth and death. For angels, their time is over.
OK, so far the answers are more or less what I expected.
But let's say a demon stopped wreaking havoc and making mischief, and instead stayed in hell, refusing to go out on marauding parties, or whatever it is that they do to pass the time, humbling himself in the fashion of the tax collector in Jesus' parable - beating his chest, crying, "God, have mercy on me, a sinner!"
Is there still no chance for redemption?