25 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you are talking about the J.W.s I thought they believed only a certain number would go to Heaven ? Under a million if memory serves me. Who are the witnesses you speak of ?
next time a friendly neighbourhood witness calls at your home, ask them about it, you will be refreshed, i can guarantee it, thanks for you kind comments 🙂
25 Dec 10
Originally posted by buckkyyes its true, we do believe that a limited number of persons shall rule with Christ in his heavenly government (kingdom) and that the vast majority of mankind shall, inherit the earth as it is restored to a paradise, for it was Gods purpose in the beginning that the earth should become a paradise and as far as I am aware it has not changed. The idea that all good persons go to heaven finds no credence in scripture, for it definitely states that the 'meek shall inherit the earth' and find delight in an abundance of peace. I am sure you have heard of that verse, anyhow I would just like to encourage you to speak with the witnesses where you live Bucky, they must come around sometimes.
If you are talking about the J.W.s I thought they believed only a certain number would go to Heaven ? Under a million if memory serves me. Who are the witnesses you speak of ?
25 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe one thing I always liked about the JWs is their belief in not celebrating special days. No Birthdays or even Christmas is not celebrated. I like that. I do not like the constant need to celebrate certain days. I'll look into the that faith more. Thanks for the heads up.
yes its true, we do believe that a limited number of persons shall rule with Christ in his heavenly government (kingdom) and that the vast majority of mankind shall, inherit the earth as it is restored to a paradise, for it was Gods purpose in the beginning that the earth should become a paradise and as far as I am aware it has not changed. The idea ...[text shortened]... courage you to speak with the witnesses where you live Bucky, they must come around sometimes.
26 Dec 10
Originally posted by buckkyI am a Christian (no, not a "so-called" one), and I happen to agree with Robbie about hell (in that it is not an "ever-lasting" torment). And I'm not a JW, either.
What you say makes sense but I've never heard a so called Christian with those ideas pertaining to Hell. Very refreshing view though. I'm impressed.
26 Dec 10
Originally posted by SuzianneYes Robbie is correct. The scripture at:
I am a Christian (no, not a "so-called" one), and I happen to agree with Robbie about hell (in that it is not an "ever-lasting" torment). And I'm not a JW, either.
Romans 6:23 (New International Version, ©2010)
23 For the wages of sin is "death", but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
So this says that your death is the wage or punishment for the sins we would have committed during our life as we're all born into a sinful condition. This scripture as well as many others say death is the result, not some eternal punishment such as a burning Hell.
Would a parent of a child that did a wrong continually punish that child forever to make them pay for that wrong? Certianly not and neither would God do that to any of us.
26 Dec 10
Originally posted by galveston75This is great ! Hell is not in my future. I could not be happier.
Yes Robbie is correct. The scripture at:
Romans 6:23 (New International Version, ©2010)
23 For the wages of sin is "death", but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
So this says that your death is the wage or punishment for the sins we would have committed during our life as we're all born into a sinful condition. This ...[text shortened]... er to make them pay for that wrong? Certianly not and neither would God do that to any of us.
26 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieEven though I'm pleased to hear that you and others don't believe in a Hell, I still have my doubts that you know any more than anyone else. It's a pleasant thought that we live forever in some way and we have nothing to fear from a Hell, but it's just that a pleasant thought. It's based on what ? Don't tell me the Bible because that holds no water with me. Everyone claims to understand what the Bible is saying but there are hundreds of different ideas on all kinds of issues. In my view we need more than a religious book to set us straight on things. I would be pleased as punch if you were correct on all your beliefs. They seem compassionate and sane. I like that in a religion or belief.
it would surprise you Buckky how many people have been set free from fear of hell and eternal torment 🙂
26 Dec 10
Originally posted by buckkysure Buckky, i understand, here is a website that you can peruse at your leisure on this subject. The thing you must distinguish in your mind is the difference between Christianity and the Bible, for the two are not the same. All i would advise is get a bible for yourself, look up the scriptures and see if it is not only compassionate but reasonable to expect that a loving and just God would punish us eternally!
Even though I'm pleased to hear that you and others don't believe in a Hell, I still have my doubts that you know any more than anyone else. It's a pleasant thought that we live forever in some way and we have nothing to fear from a Hell, but it's just that a pleasant thought. It's based on what ? Don't tell me the Bible because that holds no water with me. E ...[text shortened]... n all your beliefs. They seem compassionate and sane. I like that in a religion or belief.
http://watchtower.org/e/20020715/article_02.htm
27 Dec 10
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Originally posted by buckkyNow let's just hold on here.
Even though I'm pleased to hear that you and others don't believe in a Hell, I still have my doubts that you know any more than anyone else. It's a pleasant thought that we live forever in some way and we have nothing to fear from a Hell, but it's just that a pleasant thought. It's based on what ? Don't tell me the Bible because that holds no water with me. E ...[text shortened]... n all your beliefs. They seem compassionate and sane. I like that in a religion or belief.
I didn't say I don't believe in hell, I just said I don't believe it is a place of "everlasting" torment.
After the judgement, all those who do not "make the cut" will simply cease to exist further, being denied eternal life and suffering the ultimate punishment, eternal separation from God, i.e. the final death of their soul.
So a lifetime of sin and refutation of God will not get you sent to the "lake of fire" "forever and ever", you just won't get to go on to eternal life with God. But please realize you also won't get to continue on in some "eternal middle ground", either. Also realize the choice of ultimate destination is only your own. And no, despite what some here try to sell, you don't get unlimited "chances" to get it right.
29 Dec 10
Originally posted by SuzianneThere are many Christians (most probably) that agree with that sentiment. its the "fundies" that seem fixated on it.
I am a Christian (no, not a "so-called" one), and I happen to agree with Robbie about hell (in that it is not an "ever-lasting" torment). And I'm not a JW, either.
30 Dec 10
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After the judgement, all those who do not "make the cut" will simply cease to exist further, being denied eternal life and suffering the ultimate punishment, eternal separation from God, i.e. the final death of their soul.
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But if the judgment is called "eternal judgment" (Hebrews 6:2) then how can you speak of "after the judgment" ?
What can be "after" something that has no end ?
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So a lifetime of sin and refutation of God will not get you sent to the "lake of fire" "forever and ever", you just won't get to go on to eternal life with God. But please realize you also won't get to continue on in some "eternal middle ground", either. Also realize the choice of ultimate destination is only your own. And no, despite what some here try to sell, you don't get unlimited "chances" to get it right.
================================
This passage then is wrong ?
"And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)
You do not believe that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented "day and night forever and ever" ?
30 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=============================
After the judgement, all those who do not "make the cut" will simply cease to exist further, being denied eternal life and suffering the ultimate punishment, eternal separation from God, i.e. the final death of their soul.
=============================
But if the judgment is called "eternal judgme alse prophet will be tormented [b]"day and night forever and ever" ? [/b][/b]
But if the judgment is called [b]"eternal judgment" (Hebrews 6:2) then how can you speak of "after the judgment" ?
What can be "after" something that has no end ?
[/b]
See, I'm not sure of what this means. How can judgment be eternal? I mean you get judged, then go on to your reward or punishment.
This passage then is wrong ?
[b]"And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)
You do not believe that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented "day and night forever and ever" ?
[/b]
No, I totally buy into that. But they are not Man.
30 Dec 10
Originally posted by SuzianneYou speak with such conviction. How can you know the things you speak of ?Has some minister told you these things or is it your interpretation of the Bible or what ?
Now let's just hold on here.
I didn't say I don't believe in hell, I just said I don't believe it is a place of "everlasting" torment.
After the judgement, all those who do not "make the cut" will simply cease to exist further, being denied eternal life and suffering the ultimate punishment, eternal separation from God, i.e. the final death of their s ...[text shortened]... hat some here try to sell, you don't get unlimited "chances" to get it right.
I fear you are as much in the dark about these issues as I am. Face it we have been cut off from any direct communication with Truth. We have a Book "The Bible ". All religions have the Holy Book. The information we get from these Holy Books has caused tremendous confusion. Why the confusion I ask you ? Why does God not appear in the sky and set the human race straight, because He must see that the Bible is not working in doing that ?Hundred of different doctrines based on the same Book. We are in the Dark on spiritual issues. The blind leading the blind is dangerous.