Satan as Suffering Hero

Originally posted by KellyJay
What are you confused about? There were no flaws in the human gene pool they could
have procreated without issues.

1. Did God make them with 'procreation parts'?
2. Was procreation the plan all along?
3. Did they find each other sexy before eating the apple?
4. Why did they get all shy after eating the apple?
5. Was seeing each other naked morally wrong?
6. If seeing each other naked was morally wrong, but they simply didn't know it, then why didn't God give them clothes?
Those are just a few of the questions I have.

Of course the really big question is why anyone would place a couple of mentally challenged individuals. who are too stupid to even realise they are naked. under their own supervision right next to an apple tree whose fruit is not only deadly poisonous to the individuals but could wreak untold havoc and suffering on billions of people for eternity.
If you put a four year old in a nuclear weapons control station and said 'I'll be right back, just be sure not to push the big read button', then can you really be said to have absolved yourself of responsibility? Yet Christians honestly seem to think the Adam and Eve story successful answers the question of evil problem.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Of course the really big question is why anyone would place a couple of mentally challenged individuals. who are too stupid to even realise they are naked. under their own supervision right next to an apple tree whose fruit is not only deadly poisonous to the individuals but could wreak untold havoc and suffering on billions of people for eternity.
If yo ...[text shortened]... s honestly seem to think the Adam and Eve story successful answers the question of evil problem.

This comment is SwissGambit-esque!

And twhiteheadesque too, of course! 🙂

Originally posted by KellyJay
What are you confused about? There were no flaws in the human gene pool they could
have procreated without issues.

Basically, what was the big idea with making Adam and Eve?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Basically, what was the big idea with making Adam and Eve?

God creating a royal family that takes after Himself seems like a big deal to me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
God creating a royal family that takes after Himself seems like a big deal to me.

Guide me through it.

God created earth, yes? And then when earth was finished, he created Adam. And then, from Adam's rib, he created a female companion, Eve. Yes?

Four questions so far:

1) Why did he create Adam?
2) Why did he create Eve? 3) Why not a second Adam?
4) Why did he create Eve from Adam's rib when he had created Adam "out of nowhere"?

Please, other Christians, respond as well.

I am particularly interested in "the consensus" here.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Guide me through it.

God created earth, yes? And then when earth was finished, he created Adam. And then, from Adam's rib, he created a female companion, Eve. Yes?

Four questions so far:

1) Why did he create Adam?
2) Why did he create Eve? 3) Why not a second Adam?
4) Why did he create Eve from Adam's rib when he had created Adam "out of nowhere"?

He did not create Adam out of no where, have you read the text?

CJB Genesis 2 7 Then Adonai, God, formed a person from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living being.

I guess God thought it better to have Adam and Eve instead of Adam and Steve so they
could be fruitful and multiply.

God had done something unique with Adam that was not done with the rest of the living
creatures that were created. I assume *best guess* that using Adam's rib kept that very
unique status in place and the relationship between Adam and Eve was also unlike all
other lifeforms on the planet when it came to Adam. They were all looked at looking for
something that would work, but none worked so Eve was made.

As I pointed on earlier that God is creating a race like Himself in us, the whys I don't know,
but I'm glad He is.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Guide me through it.

God created earth, yes? And then when earth was finished, he created Adam. And then, from Adam's rib, he created a female companion, Eve. Yes?

Four questions so far:

1) Why did he create Adam?
2) Why did he create Eve? 3) Why not a second Adam?
4) Why did he create Eve from Adam's rib when he had created Adam "out of nowhere"?

A test of you truly being interested, is my recommendation that you obtain the book "The Glorious Church" by Watchman Nee. And entire books is dedicated to precisely the theme of your questions.

But I wonder if your interest is genuine. Below are some portions of the book.

GOD'S PURPOSE IN CREATING MAN

Why did God create man? What was His purpose in creating man?

God has given us the answer to these questions in Genesis 1:26 and 27. These two verses are of great significance. They reveal to us that God's creation of man was indeed an exceedingly special one. Before God created man, He said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." This was God's plan in creating man. "God said, Let us..." This speaks of the kind of man God wanted. In other words, God was designing a "model" for the man He was to create. Verse 27 reveals God's creation of man: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Verse 28 says, "God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

From these verses we see the man that God desired. God desired a ruling man, a man who would rule upon this earth; then He would be satisfied.

How did God create man? He created man in His own image. God wanted a man like Himself. It is very evident then that man's position in God's creation is entirely unique, for among all of God's creatures man alone was created in God's image. The man that God's heart was set upon was completely different from all other created beings; he was a man in His own image.

THE TYPE OF EVE

When we read Genesis 2:18-24 and Ephesians 5:22-32 we find that a woman is mentioned in both places. In Genesis 2 there is a woman, and in Ephesians 5 there is also a woman. The first woman is a sign typifying the church; the second woman is the first woman. The first woman was planned by God before the foundation of the world and appeared before the fall. The second woman was also planned before the foundation of the world, but was revealed after the fall. Although one appeared before the fall and the other after, there is no difference in God's sight: the church is the Eve of Genesis 2. God created Adam to typify Christ; God also created Eve to typify the church. God's purpose is not only accomplished by Christ but is also accomplished by the church. In Genesis 2:18, the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him." God's purpose in creating the church is that she may be the help meet of Christ. Christ alone is only half; there must be another half, which is the church. God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone." This means that in God's sight Christ alone is not good enough. Genesis 2:18-24 reiterates the events of the sixth day of creation. On the sixth day God created Adam, but afterward it seems that He considered a little and said, "No, it is not good that the man should be alone." Therefore, He created Eve for Adam. By then, everything was completed, and we find that Genesis 1 ends with this record: "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good" (v. 31). From this we realize that having Adam alone, or we may say, having Christ alone, is not enough to satisfy God's heart. With God there must also be Eve, that is, there must also be the church. Then His heart will be satisfied.

...

EVE CAME OUT OF ADAM

Adam needed a help meet. What did God do to meet this need? Genesis 2:19-20 says, "And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet for him." God brought every kind of living creature before Adam, but Adam could not find his help meet among them. None of the living creatures made out of earth could be a help meet for Adam.

Therefore, "the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof. And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man" (vv. 21-23). This one was Adam's help meet and the figure of the church in Ephesians 5. The Bible says very clearly that all of the things made of earth and not taken out of the body of Adam could not be his help meet. All the beasts of the field, the cattle, and the birds of the air were made of earth. They were not taken out of Adam; therefore, they could not be the help meet to Adam. We must remember that Eve was formed out of a rib taken from Adam; therefore, Eve was the constituent of Adam. This means that the church comes out of Christ. Only that which is out of Christ can be the church. Anything that is not of Christ is not the church.

We need to note a few more words in Genesis 1:26 and 27. Verse 26 says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them..." In the Hebrew language the word "man" is singular, but immediately following, the plural pronoun "them" is used. The same pattern is used in verse 27 which says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The noun "man" is singular, but the following pronoun "them" is plural. God created one man; but we can also say that He created two! One is two, and yet the two are one because Eve was in Adam.

Notice further that verse 27 says, "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The way God created "man" is the same way He created "them." Not only was Adam created, but Eve also was included in him. "God created man in his own image." This "man" is singular and typifies Christ. "In the image of God created He...them." "Them" is plural and typifies Christ and the church. God not only wants to have an only begotten Son, He also wants many sons. The many sons must be just like the one Son. From these verses we see that if the church is not in a state which corresponds with Christ, God will not rest and His work will not be completed. Not only is Adam in the image of God, so also is Eve. Not only does Christ have the life of God, the church also has God's life.

THE CHURCH COMES OUT OF CHRIST

We should then ask, "What is the church?" The church is that part which is taken out of Christ. We need to see the two aspects of Adam, and then it will be easy for us to understand. On one hand, Adam stands merely as himself; on the other hand, he is a type. As far as Adam himself is concerned, he was made of clay. All natural men are made of clay. But Adam also typified Christ. The fact that Eve was made from Adam signifies that the church is made from Christ. Eve was made with Adam's rib. Since Eve came out from Adam, she was still Adam. Then what is the church? The church is another form of Christ, just as Eve was another form of Adam.

The church is just Christ. Oh, there are many people who think that the church is the coming together of the "people" who believe in the Lord and who are saved. No, this is not true! Then who constitutes the church? The church is only that portion which has been taken out of Christ. In other words, it is the man which God has made by using Christ as the material. It is not a man made of clay. The material of the church is Christ. Without Christ, the church has no position, no life, no living, and no existence. The church comes out of Christ.

Selections from The Collected Works of Watchman Nee, Volume 44 - The Glorious Church, Living Stream Ministry.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Originally posted by KellyJay
God creating a royal family that takes after Himself seems like a big deal to me.

God creating a subservient family that does not take after him in any meaningful way is
... not questionable to you?

Originally posted by sonship
A test of you truly being interested, is my recommendation that you obtain the book [b]"The Glorious Church" by Watchman Nee. And entire books is dedicated to precisely the theme of your questions.

[/b]

That doesn't really ask the deep question of WHY god created Adam.

And was man created to look after the Earth or was the Earth created for Man?
Bit confusing ....