Science Negates All of Abrahamic Religions

@suzianne said
Isn't a screed like this really an example of the whole "sour grapes" philosophy?

Not at all. It's simply a perspective that you disagree with.

@suzianne said
After giving this further thought, I'd have to say that, even minus an afterlife, I would still follow Jesus, given that I've always considered the Christian "way", i.e. following his preaching on how to live life in the here and now, to be a valuable calling which personally speaks to me.

Thank you for your answer.

@kellyjay said
So if there were no promise of judgment because God isn't real you don't think the things said in the 10 Commandments would matter, so stealing would be normal behavior, lusting after everything your neighbor has normal behavior, murder normal behavior, disrespecting one's parents normal behavior our true natures would emerge outside of the restraints of God? How is that an ...[text shortened]... mised yes, and even that doesn't stop the nature of man to reject out of hand all the things of God.

Thank you for your evasion.

@kellyjay said
Rewards for what we do in the next life are promised yes, and even that doesn't stop the nature of man to reject out of hand all the things of God.

I see no evidence that any of the atheists who've contributed here, at least those I remember who have engaged you in good faith, have rejected anything "out of hand". Too often, your strawmannish word choices make you sound like a mere propagandist.

@kellyjay said
So if there were no promise of judgment because God isn't real you don't think the things said in the 10 Commandments would matter, so stealing would be normal behavior, lusting after everything your neighbor has normal behavior, murder normal behavior, disrespecting one's parents normal behavior our true natures would emerge outside of the restraints of God? How is that an ...[text shortened]... mised yes, and even that doesn't stop the nature of man to reject out of hand all the things of God.

Rather trite to think that before the 10 Commandments everyone thought it was OK to kill, steal, lust etc. These are inherent humane values - not religious decrees. Moses came down from the mountain with the two tablets of stone and the Israelites said, “Oh, so we can’t kill or steal or lust? WTF!”

@pianoman1 said
Rather trite to think that before the 10 Commandments everyone thought it was OK to kill, steal, lust etc. These are inherent humane values - not religious decrees. Moses came down from the mountain with the two tablets of stone and the Israelites said, “Oh, so we can’t kill or steal or lust? WTF!”

One of the best bits of Mel Brooks is when Moses comes down carrying three tablets, but he drops one of them.


😆

@moonbus said
Thank you for your answer.

"If there were no personal immortality and no promise of personal immortality"

The issue is not the gift of immortality, that is already here for everyone no matter what their status before God, it is where we end up due to the sins we have committed that come into play. Eternal life paying for sins, or acceptance of the grace God offers have us alive forever. You really refuse to look at the whole if it isn't to your liking.

I should add, Jesus is worthy of all of our lives.

@pianoman1 said
Rather trite to think that before the 10 Commandments everyone thought it was OK to kill, steal, lust etc. These are inherent humane values - not religious decrees. Moses came down from the mountain with the two tablets of stone and the Israelites said, “Oh, so we can’t kill or steal or lust? WTF!”

Where do you think inherent humane values come from, we are all aware of the things we should do, but we choose to do what we want.

@kellyjay said
Where do you think inherent humane values come from, we are all aware of the things we should do, but we choose to do what we want.

This awareness/inconsistency is true of the human condition regardless of whether, as I believe, human values evolved out of the necessities inherent to our social nature and communal living or, as you believe, they come from the dictates of the specific anthropomorphized supernatural being that you just so happen worship.

@kellyjay said
The issue is not the gift of immortality, that is already here for everyone no matter what their status before God, it is where we end up due to the sins we have committed that come into play. Eternal life paying for sins, or acceptance of the grace God offers have us alive forever.

You actually believe that being tortured in burning flames for eternity is a "gift of immortality"?

@kellyjay said
You really refuse to look at the whole if it isn't to your liking.

So says probably the most cowardly, prideful, and closed-minded Christian this forum has ever seen.

@kellyjay said
"If there were no personal immortality and no promise of personal immortality"

The issue is not the gift of immortality, that is already here for everyone no matter what their status before God, it is where we end up due to the sins we have committed that come into play. Eternal life paying for sins, or acceptance of the grace God offers have us alive forever. You reall ...[text shortened]... look at the whole if it isn't to your liking.

I should add, Jesus is worthy of all of our lives.

Suppose, hypothetically, that God appeared to you. The one true and really existing God, the omnipotent one, the omniscient one, sole creator of the universe, timeless and eternal, who walked the Earth as Jesus, was crucified and resurrected, that God -- suppose God spoke to you directly and personally and you could not doubt it was really that God speaking to you directly and personally, and God said:


"KellyJay, I'm sorry, but there is no afterlife for you. When you die, your soul vanishes as if it had never existed, leaving no trace. When you die, your body stays dead and eventually vanishes, as if it never existed, leaving no trace. For you, there is no heaven, no hell, no purgatory, no resurrection. For you, there is only this one short life and then nothing, just nothing, forever and ever. And this is really true, I'm not just testing you like I tested Abraham when I told him to take his son out into the desert and slit his throat--no angel is ever going to come to you and tell you anything different to what I just told you. When you die, that's it, game over, no replay.
But I still want you to follow the Ten Commandments, and I still want you to live as Jesus taught, with love and forgiveness in your heart for everyone, including those who torment and mock you."


Can you do that? Can you just answer the question? Could you live as Jesus taught, with love and forgiveness in your heart for everyone, including those who torment and mock you, and following the Ten Commandments, even if there is no afterlife? It's a simple question, to which a simple "yes" or "no", or even "I'd give it a try but I might fail", would suffice. Suzi answered (it was a "yes" ). Now, can you just answer, instead of preaching?

@moonbus said
Suppose, hypothetically, that God appeared to you. The one true and really existing God, the omnipotent one, the omniscient one, sole creator of the universe, timeless and eternal, who walked the Earth as Jesus, was crucified and resurrected, that God -- suppose God spoke to you directly and personally and you could not doubt it was really that God speaking to you dire ...[text shortened]... il", would suffice. Suzi answered (it was a "yes" ). Now, can you just answer, instead of preaching?

Jesus Christ is worthy of my devotion if I get nothing from Him other than what I deserve for all the evil things I have done in my life.

So not a hypothetical question Jesus Christ paid a debt you can not pay, what will you do with Christ?

@kellyjay said
So not a hypothetical question Jesus Christ paid a debt you can not pay, what will you do with Christ?

It is odd to claim that this is not a hypothetical question.

The notion that "Jesus Christ paid a debt you can not pay" is about as hypothetical as one can possibly get because:

1. the evidence that it happened comprises little more than believers' personal certainty that it happened, and

2. it doesn't even make moral sense to those not intellectually besotted by the ideology.

@kellyjay said
So not a hypothetical question Jesus Christ paid a debt you can not pay, what will you do with Christ?

I think there are teachings attributed to Jesus ~ by people who wrote about him decades after he died ~ that make for a good code for morally sound living regardless of Christian preoccupations with notions of child sacrifice, debt, forgiveness, and a "gift of immortality".