16 Jan 10
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Originally posted by jaywillWhats your point? As far as they are concerned they are actually spreading the truth and that they are the spiritual teachers sent by God. You and me are both friends of Satan sent by Satan to preach lies and to lead people astray. And in case you have not realised it by now, there is nothing you can do or say to change their false doctrines and their false prophesies and their false teachings.
The going from door to door of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not a biblical problem. Actually it is quite commendable.
It is the [b]wrong teachings that they bring to the door which is the problem.
But in going from door to door itself, this can be a good way to spread the truth.[/b]
Edit: the JWs all know that they are not spreading the Gospel of Christ. They know that most of what they preach was never taught by Christ or Paul. Is it then ok to knowingly go from door to door preaching a doctrine thats false?
16 Jan 10
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Originally posted by jaywillWell said here Jaywill.
[b]===========================
Do you understand what a parable is?
==============================
The stronger evidence is that the account of Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable.
==================================
It was just an illustration from Jesus to help us understand a situation between to classes of people ...[text shortened]... son ?
How can God reward or punish a person that is brand new and never existed before?[/b]
If I can add something .. a parable is a realistic and literal story but with a spiritual meaning. It must mean therefore that the literal aspect of the parable can actually happen. That means souls can actually go to either a place of torment or a place of peaceful rest.
16 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999After years of studying the Bible I have concluded that God has not told us everything. I believe that He has told us what He deems necessary for us to know.
Well said here Jaywill.
If I can add something .. a parable is a realistic and literal story but with a spiritual meaning. It must mean therefore that the literal aspect of the parable can actually happen. That means souls can actually go to either a place of torment or a place of peaceful rest.
I think I know that there are at least two realms for souls to be in after death:
1.) "Abraham's bosom" aka Paradise in the heart of the earth.
This is the pleasand side of Hades.
2.) The place of punishment where the rich man went. This is the unpleasant side of Hades.
I do not know that God has other places for souls. Perhaps He does. But these I think I see clearly in the Bible.
There seems to be a realm "lower" where especially evil angels are kept in chains. This is called Tartarus. And it is not altogether without some reference to mythology.
But the mythology, I feel, is based on something actual.
So at least these two or three realms are revealed to us in the Bible. My personal approach is that there are some unkonwns. And some day these unknown procedures or places of God may well be known.
Paul, in his being transported to other realms, heard things which it not lawful to utter. So we cannot say we know all about these realms.
16 Jan 10
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Originally posted by Rajk999Parable:
Well said here Jaywill.
If I can add something .. a parable is a realistic and literal story but with a spiritual meaning. It must mean therefore that the literal aspect of the parable can actually happen. That means souls can actually go to either a place of torment or a place of peaceful rest.
1) " A narrative of imagined events used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson."
2) " An allegory."
The Oxford Dictionary. 1998.
You obviously don't know what a parable is.
16 Jan 10
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Originally posted by jaywillYou are absolutely right and have pointed to the reason why several Christian sects fail to come to grips with accurate Bible interpretation. Sects like the JWs and Christadelphians and several others believe that the Bible is a complete text that gives all the information required for accurate interpretation. They dont recognise that accurate interpretation is only possible for those things which are relevant to salvation.
After years of studying the Bible I have concluded that God has not told us everything. I believe that He has told us what He deems necessary for us to know.
I think I know that there are at least two realms for souls to be in after death:
1.) "Abraham's bosom" aka Paradise in the heart of the earth.
This is the pleasand side of Hades.
2. heard things which it not lawful to utter. So we cannot say we know all about these realms.
I would even go so far as to say that its the words of Christ which give salvation and those words require very little interpretation or analysis, and furthermore if the OT says something that appears to conflict with what Christ said then I will err on the side of believing what Christ said.
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
16 Jan 10
Originally posted by galveston75And exactly how does that definition void mine?
Parable:
1) " A narrative of imagined events used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson."
2) " An allegory."
The Oxford Dictionary. 1998.
You obviously don't know what a parable is.
Imagined events can be of two types -
- realistic events and
- fairytale or folk tale events
The parables of Christ are based on realistic events ie events that can actually happen. Christ never told parables which contain fairytales or folktales. Have a look at Wiki's comments on parables. Careful though .. JWs are not supposed to read anything that are not published by the WatchTower organisation ... 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
16 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999You know so little about so much... Prov 3:5 applys to ones like yourself who think they are above what the Bible says and adds whatever pleases themselves and fits into their consience.
And exactly how does that definition void mine?
Imagined events can be of two types -
- realistic events and
- fairytale or folk tale events
The parables of Christ are based on realistic events ie events that can actually happen. Christ never told parables which contain fairytales or folktales. Have a look at Wiki's comments on parables. Careful t ...[text shortened]... are not published by the WatchTower organisation ... 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
The Bible clearly says that souls die. Believe what you want and go your merry way.
16 Jan 10
Originally posted by galveston75The question is not whether souls die or not. The questions is are souls annhilated into non-existence upon the death of the a person.
You know so little about so much... Prov 3:5 applys to ones like yourself who think they are above what the Bible says and adds whatever pleases themselves and fits into their consience.
The Bible clearly says that souls die. Believe what you want and go your merry way.
Clearly from teaching and examples in the Bible, there are records where they did not.
16 Jan 10
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Originally posted by galveston75Of course souls die... nobody is doubting that. Why do you keep saying it like a defective record?
You know so little about so much... Prov 3:5 applys to ones like yourself who think they are above what the Bible says and adds whatever pleases themselves and fits into their consience.
The Bible clearly says that souls die. Believe what you want and go your merry way.
Christ said God only can kill souls. So obviously the body dies and the soul lives on until that time when God decides on what is to happen with that soul.
As for Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
You are the only one not trusting in what Christ said. Read Matt 10:28 and Luke 16 -- the Rich Man and Lazarus. Everyone one so far on this thread believes what Christ says here. Only you are leaning to your own undestanding and JW false teaching.
16 Jan 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Ps 146:4. Oh I forgot, you don't believe in the old Testiment. Sorry.
Of course souls die... nobody is doubting that. Why do you keep saying it like a defective record?
Christ said God only can kill souls. So obviously the body dies and the soul lives on until that time when God decides on what is to happen with that soul.
As for Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understan ...[text shortened]... eves what Christ says here. Only you are leaning to your own undestanding and JW false teaching.
18 Jan 10
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Let's consider Second Corinthians 5:1-8:
"For we know that if our earthly tabernacle dwelling is taken down, we have a building from God, a dwelling not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens." (v.1)
The earthly tabernacle dwelling refers to the physical body of the apostles.
If it should die, ie. "taken down", they are not in dispair. They have a glorified and eternal body which they expect God's full salvation will provide for them.
"For also in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our dwelling place from heaven," (v.2)
The apostles groan and long to receive their glorified eternal bodies that God's full salvation will provide for them at transfiguration.
"If indeed, being clothed, we will not be found naked" (v.3)
The alternative to being clothed with the glorified body is for their natural earthly body to die and for them to find themselves "naked". This means to be an unclothed soul. All who have died before the resurrection and rapture have an unclothed soul in Hades. This immaterial part of their being is "naked" without a physical body.
God does not desire that souls be unclothed and naked. And the apostles do not wish to have to be unclothed souls or naked souls. They prefer that they would receive their new glorified bodies as an eternal clothing, and eternal dwelling.
This passage proves that though it is undesireable, the soul can be in a state of nakedness if the physical body should die, ie. be taken down.
The Johavah's Witnesses do not believe that the immaterial part of man can be unclothed and found naked. For them for the body to die is for the soul to enter into annhilation of non-existence.
Their strong belief is negated in many places including here in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8.
18 Jan 10
Originally posted by galveston75"Not one scripture in the Bible says the soul lives on after death."
I've noticed some discussions lately about the soul and what it is. According to the Bible, not mythes or religious beliefs, it is the fleshly body that humans and all living creatures have. It is something we start to grow at conception and that begins to perish at death.
Gen 1: 20 mentions the ocean and flying creatures as souls.
Gen 1: 24 speaks o ...[text shortened]...
Acts 3:23 confirms this.
Not one scripture in the Bible says the soul lives on after death.
Matthew 22:32 - I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
If God is not your God, then when you die you'll be dead.