Speed of Light and Age of Universe

Originally posted by KellyJay
Care to quote me on that? I may have, but I do not recall.
You seem to have access to me saying that, care to bring
it out so that we call can see it? I seem to you recall you
making other claims about things I have said and were
unable to produce them! Maybe you have your ducks in
row this time before opening your mouth? Having been more
in more than a few of these discussions it is possible I could
have said that.
Kelly

Screw you. I'm not dredging through hundreds of pages of posts to refute a non-denial. You've said it in the same singsong fashion as all your nonsensical posts. You've also suggested that the light might not be from events that actually happened, that God just put events into the light stream. You're kinda dumb and couldn't really grasp the concept. However, simply answer this question in less than 1,000 words: if we see light from a supernova 1 million light years away how is this possible if the universe is only 6000 or 10000 years old (I presume you know that a light year is a unit that measures distance travelled by light in a year)?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
There is a slight problem here. If C really has changed, then the light that's reaching us from all different stars at different distances will all be different ages, correlated with distance by a non-linear relationship. If that's the case, it means that the stars that we think are very far away are not necessarily very far away. They must therefore ...[text shortened]... by exactly the right amount to give the impression that these are normal stars far, far away.

Enter Occam's Razor.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Enter Occam's Razor.

Indeed. Problem is most YECs don't seem to grasp the whole concept of Occam's razor (either).

Originally posted by KellyJay
Why would any rate need change if the universe started 6000
years ago? You don't happen to know exactly what the universe
looked like 6000 years ago do you?
Kelly

You like to throw out those strawmen don't you. You figure that invalidates my argument?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Indeed. Problem is most YECs don't seem to grasp the whole concept of Occam's razor (either).

They don't WANT to know how Occam's razor works, they think it will make their faces bleed.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Screw you. I'm not dredging through hundreds of pages of posts to refute a non-denial. You've said it in the same singsong fashion as all your nonsensical posts. You've also suggested that the light might not be from events that actually happened, that God just put events into the light stream. You're kinda dumb and couldn't really grasp the concept. How ...[text shortened]... you know that a light year is a unit that measures distance travelled by light in a year)?

I believe that was what you did last time too, accuse me saying
something and fail to back it up. If you want to discuss something
I have said, maybe you should just stick to those works of mine
that you can see, the ones you make up are not ones I'm going
to defend.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
They don't WANT to know how Occam's razor works, they think it will make their faces bleed.

Yea explain it to me, I don't believe a lot of people apply that
to what their beliefs are.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
You like to throw out those strawmen don't you. You figure that invalidates my argument?

I'm just attempting to know what you know! I believe the issue
with speed of light and the age of the univrse boils down to can we
get here from there, so a very real part of that question than becomes
what did the universe look like 6K ago, or 7K ago, or 1B ago. If it
was formed out of a big bang from a singe point that is one thing,
if it was formed by the power of God fully functioning that is another.
You can tell by looking at it now which is true without appling faith to
your reasoning, I'd be interesting in seeing what it is you think you
know.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm just attempting to know what you know! I believe the issue
with speed of light and the age of the univrse boils down to can we
get here from there, so a very real part of that question than becomes
what did the universe look like 6K ago, or 7K ago, or 1B ago. If it
was formed out of a big bang from a singe point that is one thing,
if it was formed ...[text shortened]... faith to
your reasoning, I'd be interesting in seeing what it is you think you
know.
Kelly

What I don't understand is why you want to insist on telling god how it all happened. So maybe god invented the universe but why do you insist it HAD to happen just like in the bible? For instance, the whole 7 day creation story didn't even originate with christianity. Its plagerized from an older myth going back to Zoroastrianism and seen in pypyrus drawings in ancient Egypt. I know this for a fact because I saw them in the Cairo museum, at least 3000 years old. I imagine your response to be something like 'It doesn't have to be christian to be true' or some such. The fact remains it didn't come from the bible, it was millenia older. I will assume you will just rationalize that away, so the only question is what form your rationalization will take.

Originally posted by sonhouse
What I don't understand is why you want to insist on telling god how it all happened. So maybe god invented the universe but why do you insist it HAD to happen just like in the bible? For instance, the whole 7 day creation story didn't even originate with christianity. Its plagerized from an older myth going back to Zoroastrianism and seen in pypyrus drawin ...[text shortened]... t rationalize that away, so the only question is what form your rationalization will take.

When I talk about God creating the universe I do so with the full
knowledge what I'm saying is faith, when you do it it is a matter
of fact to you, but is it really?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe that was what you did last time too, accuse me saying
something and fail to back it up. If you want to discuss something
I have said, maybe you should just stick to those works of mine
that you can see, the ones you make up are not ones I'm going
to defend.
Kelly

Again, we both know you've said it. So just answer the question I gave above rather than continuing with your usual nonsensical rambling.

Originally posted by KellyJay
When I talk about God creating the universe I do so with the full
knowledge what I'm saying is faith, when you do it it is a matter
of fact to you, but is it really?
Kelly

We don't take things on faith, we take them on evidence. You take things on faith and then attempt to bend the evidence to fit your faith. Its not quite the same thing. If the evidence changes after due confirmation, hopefully an independent means of confirmation, then the concept will change. Is a matter of cause and effect. You want to reverse cause and effect to justify your faith. I just follow the work. All the work so far shows a 14 billion year old universe. One of the biggest problems I see with a young earth, just look at the moon, its full of craters, When they were hit, they had to be more than red hot.
6000 years would leave the moon so hot as to be totally blinding an infrared sensor and its only a little bit hot, couple hundred C at best but a couple hundred MINUS in the shade. You can;t get down to that kind of tempurature in 6000 years if the whole place was loaded with impacts. I imagine you can rationalize that one away with all the rest and there would be nothing in the way of objective evidence that would sway you away from your well brainwashed faith.

Originally posted by sonhouse
We don't take things on faith, we take them on evidence. You take things on faith and then attempt to bend the evidence to fit your faith. Its not quite the same thing. If the evidence changes after due confirmation, hopefully an independent means of confirmation, then the concept will change. Is a matter of cause and effect. You want to reverse cause and e ...[text shortened]... ing in the way of objective evidence that would sway you away from your well brainwashed faith.

I have the same evidence you do, the universe isn't different if
you’re a Christian or an Atheist, so the evidence is the same. What
is different is how we view it; I again ask you, the same question!
Do you know what the universe looked like 6 or 7K years ago, or
1B years ago? Is it really that you just think you know, because
you look around and think if this piece of the universe means that,
then your understanding is simply a belief you are getting it all
correct? Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't a hard core fact, the
universe is what it is; your evidence is really what you are saying
bit and pieces of the universe mean, in other words, it is between
your ears, your faith!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have the same evidence you do, the universe isn't different if
you’re a Christian or an Atheist, so the evidence is the same. What
is different is how we view it; I again ask you, the same question!
Do you know what the universe looked like 6 or 7K years ago, or
1B years ago? Is it really that you just think you know, because
you look around and thin and pieces of the universe mean, in other words, it is between
your ears, your faith!
Kelly

You seem to be under the illusion that if you just wish hard enough, everything will turn out to be just as your faith insists, and you are supported by over a billion people with the same illusion. It does not change the fact that what you have in reality is 1 billion people, actually maybe 3 billion counting all the Abrahamic religions, all deluded by PEOPLE hundreds and thousands of years in the past. Just goes to show you how gullible humans really are. Two millenia of scientific and mathematical advancement, telescopes peering into space billions of LY, of course you doubt that,'Faith", totally unfounded, just gullible people believing what mama and daddy did,
wishin and hoping THEY will be the 'saved' ones and the rest of humanity will go to hades. I really feel for your delusion.
You seem to thing 3 billion people can't be wrong. Hate to break it to you but 6 billion people can be just as wrong. What if it turns out EVERYBODY is wrong theists and atheists both? Impossible so you say. But you have no problem using the locic developed by thousands of years of mathemetitions to attempt to refute it, citing it to be logically impossible for atheism and theism to both be wrong at the same time but the universe does not have to follow human logic, thats only a set of rules humans THINK is correctl Just like you say how do I know what the universe looked like 6k years ago, all you have to do is look 6,000 ly away, thats what things looked like back then, not on earth of course but telescopes are time machines as well as space machines.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You seem to be under the illusion that if you just wish hard enough, everything will turn out to be just as your faith insists, and you are supported by over a billion people with the same illusion. It does not change the fact that what you have in reality is 1 billion people, actually maybe 3 billion counting all the Abrahamic religions, all deluded by PEO ...[text shortened]... ck then, not on earth of course but telescopes are time machines as well as space machines.

Why would you say that? I'm under the impression that reality is
what it is no matter what you or I believe! My faith as well as yours
tells each of us, this is how the universe is, our faith, what we believe
molds our world view. As I said, the past is the past no matter what
you think various rates of decay are telling you, it is what it is no
matter what the scripture tells me too.

Can you carry on a conversation without trying to turn it into some
diatribe?

What does salvation have to do with this discussion?

I hate to break it to you, but you don’t have a clue what 6 billion
people believe; moreover, yes they can be wrong too! Simply having
a majority of people believing any so called fact does not mean that
the fact is accurate; it only means that the majority of people believe
it nothing more! You believe that when you look down the street
that you are peering into the past too? Telescopes are not time
machines they are telescopes; you think if you look far away you are
looking into the past? I guess flat Earthers are still alive and well,
they believed if they could peer far enough away they would see the
edge of the earth. You like them just go around in circles with your
beliefs.
Kelly