Striking Teachers

Originally posted by @secondson
Do you see teachers strikes as a moral issue?

In my opinion education should be in the private sector and run like a business. Pay should be based on performance like it is in the real world.

But what do I know? I went to the school of hard knocks. 😉

If you are "from the school of hard knocks", one might be excused for thinking that you might want to actually help improve the lives (and what way better than improving education -- i.e. removing the greed factor and providing every child with a zero-cost education) of those with "hard-knock lives".

Originally posted by @secondson
But what do I know? I went to the school of hard knocks. 😉

What is the “school of hard knocks”?

Originally posted by @divegeester
What is the “school of hard knocks”?

There's this huge thing out here, called the "Internet"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Hard_Knocks

Originally posted by @divegeester
What is the “school of hard knocks”?

"school of hard knocks": definition - an indiscriminate virtual institution offering self-accreditation that its graduates use to lend credibility to whatever they have just asserted, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

See also: Private Reality.

Originally posted by @fmf
"school of hard knocks": definition - an indiscriminate virtual institution offering self-accreditation that its graduates use to lend credibility to whatever they have just asserted, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

See also: Private Reality.

Where did you find that definition, The FMF Dictionary of Snarky Put-Downs?

Try this one on for size:
"The School of Hard Knocks — or University of Hard Knocks — is an idiomatic phrase meaning the (sometimes painful) education one gets from life's usually negative experiences, often contrasted with formal education. It is a phrase which is most-typically used by a person to claim a level of wisdom imparted by life experience, which should be considered at least equal in merit to academic knowledge. It is a response that may be given when one is asked about his or her education, particularly if they do not have an extensive formal education but rather life experiences that should be valued instead. It may also be used facetiously, to suggest that formal education is not of practical value compared with "street" experience." -- Wikipedia

Yes, snark-free.

Or maybe you're familiar with this quote, Rowan Atkinson, from Blackadder:
"I, on the other hand, am a fully rounded human being, with a degree from the University of Life, a diploma from the School of Hard Knocks, and four gold stars from the Kindergarten of Getting The *hit Kicked Out Of Me."

A little more colorful, but yes, snark-free.

Originally posted by @fmf
I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. Employers often frame industrial action as a moral issue too ~ as in 'it is morally questionable for people with jobs like teachers to go on strike'.

When I said teachers taking industrial action is often framed as a moral issue by those they are in dispute with, what that meant is that their employers tr ...[text shortened]... orally unsound as being an "appeal to the emotions for a subjective response to gain attention"?

People are passionate about having more money. Teachers are no exception.

I see money as a useful tool, but it is a cruel master. Especially if one has too much. If I want more money I work harder.

Considering the state of our education system I think it unethical to demand more money by teachers if their performance is under par.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Where did you find that definition, The FMF Dictionary of Snarky Put-Downs?

I just wrote it, that's all. We're on a message board. I think it's a wry and observant definition ~ it's concise, original and a lot wittier than the highly repetitive kinds of put-down that you serve up.

Originally posted by @fmf
"school of hard knocks": definition - an indiscriminate virtual institution offering self-accreditation that its graduates use to lend credibility to whatever they have just asserted, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

See also: Private Reality.

I beg to differ. The school of hard knocks means learning the hard way. It means making a lot of mistakes, then finding what works and doing it with enthusiasm. Doing it right without doing harm.

Originally posted by @secondson
People are passionate about having more money. Teachers are no exception.

I see money as a useful tool, but it is a cruel master. Especially if one has too much. If I want more money I work harder.

Considering the state of our education system I think it unethical to demand more money by teachers if their performance is under par.

Concerning your "run education like a business" model, you might consider that "you get what you pay for". Pay crappy wages and you end up with crappy teachers, when all the good teachers leave the calling to find a job they can feed their families with. Considering that one might like to provide the next generation with a quality education, denying teachers a level of pay commensurate with their responsibility to our own children is folly.

Originally posted by @secondson
Considering the state of our education system I think it unethical to demand more money by teachers if their performance is under par.

How does having a proportion of your teachers - more often than not working in the most deprived and challenging parts of your society - relying on food stamps and constantly being one month's wages [or one costly medical emergency] away from financial disaster - contribute to improving your education system?

Originally posted by @suzianne
Pay crappy wages and you end up with crappy teachers, when all the good teachers leave the calling to find a job they can feed their families with. Considering that one might like to provide the next generation with a quality education, denying teachers a level of pay commensurate with their responsibility to our own children is folly.

Pay crappy wages and you end up with crappy teachers...

I don't think this is true.

Originally posted by @secondson
I beg to differ. The school of hard knocks means learning the hard way. It means making a lot of mistakes, then finding what works and doing it with enthusiasm. Doing it right without doing harm.

This could apply to anybody and is just wishy washy. You may have learned some stuff "the hard way" ~ most people do ~ but it doesn't seem to have made you knowledgeable about education, for example. It's just made you sound like a blowhard. More often than not, citing the "school of hard knocks" is a sign that the person doing it has a chip on their shoulder and just wants to lend some credence to their bitter, peephole perspectives.

Originally posted by @fmf
I just wrote it, that's all. We're on a message board. I think it's a wry and observant definition ~ it's concise, original and a lot wittier than the highly repetitive kinds of put-down that you serve up.

Does your mind immediately fly to "put-downs" when asked a straightforward question?

Looks like I was right about the snark, though. It sounded exactly like it came from your mind.

See above.

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]Pay crappy wages and you end up with crappy teachers...

I don't think this is true.[/b]

I'm trying to follow his "business model" thinking.

Better teachers can command higher wages, so if you're offering low wages, the better ones aren't going to apply in the first place, unless they are desperate for a job. "You get what you pay for" is apropos here.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Does your mind immediately fly to "put-downs" when asked a straightforward question?

I thought my personal definition of "school of hard knocks" has a degree of originality and wistful humour that you seem incapable of. I find your constant put-downs boring. We don't have to be fans of each other's contributions. I would have more respect for yours if you were less repetitive.