18 Jul '05 11:13>
Suicide bombing is faith and devotion in its purest form. Gainsay it if you will.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageFor me, a "pure, blind faith" is nothing more than a cult. That is why I feel faith should have some element of healthy doubt and skeptism.
The act of high-explosive martyrdom, which also calls for courage and selflessness, requires pure, blind faith, without which it would be tantamount to murder and stupidity.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAccording to one Jewish exegesis I heard (from a rabbi), Abraham did fail the test—no “righteous man” (tzaddik) would sacrifice his child, even if God commanded it.
If you were Abraham, you'd have failed your test.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI wonder if Islam has an equivalent to wrestling with God.
Thanks for an excellent post. And thank the Lord for Jewish exegesis. Every church should have a rabbi.
Weird how the bloodthirsty murderer-god I see when I look into the OT through eyes weakened by Christianity changes in Kabbalis ...[text shortened]... I wonder if Islam has an equivalent to wrestling with God.
Originally posted by vistesdIt appears to me that the take you refer is too far-fetched.
According to one Jewish exegesis I heard (from a rabbi), Abraham did fail the test—no “righteous man” (tzaddik) would sacrifice his child, even if God commanded it.
Another take on the story might be that ha elohim, “the gods” tested Abraham by telling him to sacrifice Isaac. Elohim is a plural form that is used for God (sort of like t ...[text shortened]... uniform in seeing it as a story whose ultimate point is to do away with sacrificing children.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageWhat stops that from being murder, the fact that the person doing it
The act of high-explosive martyrdom, which also calls for courage and selflessness, requires pure, blind faith, without which it would be tantamount to murder and stupidity.
Originally posted by PalynkaYou might be right. It depends on how you view the text: something to be deciphered to find the “true” meaning (whether historical, or whatever), or as a “texture” for imaginative exploration. Rabbinic Judaism (perhaps as far back as the second or third century BCE) has consistently adopted the second approach. There has no doubt been an apologetic element to it; but there is also no rule about offering only “apologetic” interpretations.
It appears to me that the take you refer is too far-fetched.
In my opinion, that looks like someone trying too hard to find a way to wriggle himself out of an embarassing part of the scriptures. A part that describes his God as something he does not appreciate.
The ammount of wrestling that needs to be done with that text to come up with such an explan ...[text shortened]... s.
I agree interpretation plays an important role in such texts, but surely there is a limit.
Originally posted by vistesdI'm sorry, but the accusation of dishonesty is uncalled for. I never said I didn't reject all religions texts. I do, but what has that got to do with my point?
It’s just another paradigm. Accept it or reject it. Just don’t assume that Jews read the written Torah in any way like Christians, and then levy the same arguments that you would against Christian theists. Far more honest to simply say, “As an atheist, I reject all the religious texts, good or bad.”
Originally posted by PalynkaThis is how law used to operate in Republican Rome: legal fictions were devised whenever the law of the 12 Tables, which could not be altered, needed tweaking to suit contemporary needs.
Any sufficiently large enough text would do for that matter. It can even have contradictions, all one needs to find is an interpretation that goes against its literal meaning that suits our current needs.
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Originally posted by PalynkaFirst, an apology. I did not mean to imply that you are dishonest. I absolutely do not think you are—but that was terribly put on my part, and I apologize for it.
I'm sorry, but the accusation of dishonesty is uncalled for. I never said I didn't reject all religions texts. I do, but what has that got to do with my point?
I find the way of interpreting the scriptures you described a cop-out. A way to look behind the logical flaws and indirectly say that there is no flaw in the scriptures, only flaws in interpretat ...[text shortened]... find is an interpretation that goes against its literal meaning that suits our current needs.