Sumydid on Secular Liberal Progressives

Originally posted by chaney3
ThinkOfOne seems to be implying that 'others' have spoken of grace and the "free gift", but Jesus did not.

Following the commands of Christ is what he is talking about, which is what Rajk999 also talks about.

They are saying that there is NO free gift....no grace.

Said differently, we must earn our way into 'heaven'.

You don't quite have everything correct here.

Following the commands of Christ is what he is talking about, which is what Rajk999 also talks about.

KEEPing the command of Jesus and transformation into being one with God is what I'm talking about.

From what I can tell, what you've written wouldn't be incorrect to say of Rajk999.

They are saying that there is NO free gift....no grace.

Not in the sense of "salvation via atoning sacrifice" for me.

From what I can tell, Rajk999 does believe in the "atoning sacrifice", but that salvation also requires following the words of Jesus.

From what I can tell, Rajk999 believes that the "atoning sacrifice" applies to EVERYONE. This makes much more sense than that "You have to accept the free gift" nonsense. With that nonsense, an individual in effect "earns" his salvation by accepting the "free gift", yet they also believe that there is no "earning" your salvation.

Said differently, we must earn our way into 'heaven'.

Actually, ultimately Jesus was speaking of transformation.

That the individual must become one with God as He was one with God.

The individual must become a son of God as He was a son of God.

It only makes sense that an individual cannot be one with God or be a son of God and continue to sin.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
You have a mortgage on your wigwam?

(Sorry, Robbie is no longer her to berate).

My wigwam may not amount to a hill of bean, but this is my hill, and those are my beans! 😠

Originally posted by whodey
My wigwam may not amount to a hill of bean, but this is my hill, and those are my beans! 😠

One suspects sir, with the greatest of respect, that those beans are half baked.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
One suspects sir, with the greatest of respect, that those beans are half baked.

At least they are not fried like yours.

Then again, everything taste good fried even though it is poison to eat that way

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Keeping the will of God is the only road to God. The will of God is contained in the words Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.

Keeping the will of God IS "the way, and the truth, and the life" that Jesus was speaking of. It makes perfect sense.

It's elegant in its simplicity. Unlike that convoluted "free gift" nonsense that you've bought into.

If salvation is not given away as a free gift, how can the "poor" afford it?

Is salvation only for the "good" people like yourself?

Originally posted by FMF
His 'do your own research' demeanor aside, I think ThinkOfOne's de facto disclosure (if that's indeed what it is) is both interesting and welcome.

Yes, I think the honesty of him coming clean about not being a Christian is a welcome interlude.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, I think the honesty of him coming clean about not being a Christian is a welcome interlude.

Why is the 'label' of a Christian so important to you? In the long run, what does it matter?

Both Rajk999 and ThinkOfOne, regardless of labels, are proposing that the 'gift' of salvation comes with Keeping the words of Christ....and being SIN FREE, and has little to do with 'belief'.

Comments on that?

Originally posted by chaney3
Why is the 'label' of a Christian so important to you? In the long run, what does it matter?

Both Rajk999 and ThinkOfOne, regardless of labels, are proposing that the 'gift' of salvation comes with Keeping the words of Christ....and being SIN FREE, and has little to do with 'belief'.

Comments on that?

Sure; it's not a label. It's a confession of Christ as described in the gospels. You either genuinely see yourself as a Christian or you genuinely don't. There is no in between, just the space where the cowards and the fakes hide. I'm not judging you on nothing more than your honesty.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sure; it's not a label. It's a confession of Christ as described in the gospels. You either genuinely see yourself as a Christian or you genuinely don't. There is no in between, just the space where the cowards and the fakes hide. I'm not judging you on nothing more than your honesty.

"Confession of Christ".....in what way?

What interests me is that both Rajk999 and ThinkOfOne make a case for what exactly Jesus may want from us, regarding how we live our lives, and they make their case with the words of Jesus.

By the way, did Jesus require us to profess ourselves as Christians? No. So you ought to rethink your 'human' agenda.

Originally posted by chaney3
"Confession of Christ".....in what way?

What interests me is that both Rajk999 and ThinkOfOne make a case for what exactly Jesus may want from us, regarding how we live our lives, and they make their case with the words of Jesus.

By the way, did Jesus require us to profess ourselves as Christians? No. So you ought to rethink your 'human' agenda.

And you need to read your Bible more.

Edit: as do i by the way, but for fundamentally different reasons than you.

Originally posted by divegeester
And you need to read your Bible more.

Let me ask you this.

Did Jesus ever say that salvation was a "free gift", requiring no more than belief?

Or does He want something?

Originally posted by chaney3
Let me ask you this.

Did Jesus ever say that salvation was a "free gift", requiring no more than belief?

Or does He want something?

When you say, "let me say this" you actually say nothing, you just as me a question.

You pretend like you know your Bible, as though in that vague and distant past when you "always considered yourself to a Christian", you feel like you actually were a Christian and actually read and meditated on scripture.

But of course the reality is your other claim "I've never been a Christian", isn't it.

Originally posted by divegeester
When you say, "let me say this" you actually say nothing, you just as me a question.

You pretend like you know your Bible, as though in that vague and distant past when you "always considered yourself to a Christian", you feel like you actually were a Christian and actually read and meditated on scripture.

But of course the reality is your other claim "I've never been a Christian", isn't it.

I said.....let me ASK you this.

Originally posted by chaney3
I said.....let me ASK you this.

I apologise, yes you did. The rest of my post I stand by.

Originally posted by chaney3
Let me ask you this.

Did Jesus ever say that salvation was a "free gift", requiring no more than belief?

Or does He want something?

Ephesians 2: 8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Read your bible.

Someone once told me: Salvation is free, but discipleship will cost you everything.