The Agers Challenge

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well ok, thats fine, but you still need to explain the fullfilment of prophecy in other
terms than, the writters new about it and engineered the story, a pretty lame excuse if
ever there was one, or the Agers special, Jesus wasn't really Jesus it could have been
anyone, errr no Agers, you had to be born of the tribe of Judah, of David's line, i ...[text shortened]... gers smaggers, not very convincing argument
at all, is it. Can you do better dear Noobster?

or the Agers special, Jesus wasn't really Jesus it could have been
anyone, errr no Agers, you had to be born of the tribe of Judah, of David's line, in
Bethlehem, of a virgin, grow up, go preaching, get crucified, be given sour wine and
not complain one bit about it
and your evidence this actually occured is where??? Ah yes...the Bible, that's where all the evidence is!

If we believe the Bible then we''ll believe the Bible...From this we will conclude the Bible is true!


No circularity at all!

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]or the Agers special, Jesus wasn't really Jesus it could have been
anyone, errr no Agers, you had to be born of the tribe of Judah, of David's line, in
Bethlehem, of a virgin, grow up, go preaching, get crucified, be given sour wine and
not complain one bit about it
and your evidence this actually occured is where??? Ah yes...the Bible, that's wh ...[text shortened]... lieve the Bible...From this we will conclude the Bible is true!


No circularity at all![/b]

well you dont say, the Bible, who would have suspected it! well were not trying to make
the case for the news of the world as being inspired are we dear Agers.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well you dont say, the Bible, who would have suspected it! well were not trying to make
the case for the news of the world as being inspired are we dear Agers.

Why didn't you start off this thread with:

start by having faith that the Bible is true then explain away the following:..
..
..
...blah blah
..
..

Ridiculous! 😵

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]It is becoming more and more apparent each day me illustrious friend, just how religious atheists really are.

Could you elucidate that a little further for me.

an ancient prophecy fulfilled hundreds of years after the event and manifest in theman, Jesus Christ.

If someone girl walked up to you in the street and told you she was pr ...[text shortened]... ld in a 2,000 year old book i fail to see why any of the above reactions shouldn't be held.[/b]

This is one of those miracles that is a stumbing block to the unbeliever.
Without the intervention of God, it is impossible. But as the Holy Bible
say, all things are possible with God.

Originally posted by Agerg
Why didn't you start off this thread with:

start by having faith that the Bible is true then explain away the following:..
..
..
...blah blah
..
..

Ridiculous! 😵

I play the flute and you refuse to dance, you asked for specific Biblical references, i provide them and now you are refusing to dance, so be it!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
who cares what you are suggesting,

You seem to care enough to ask the question in a thread, respond to me twice and to deliberately fail to actually read what I wrote the first time.

is there no champion among the atheists to take the Agers challenge?
There are plenty, but you simply declare anything we say "banalities non entities and gross generalities". It is you that is not up to being challenged.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I play the flute and you refuse to dance, you asked for specific Biblical references, i provide them and now you are refusing to dance, so be it!

You haven't actually provided the Biblical evidence I asked for which you ignored on 3 occassions. Given that it's a prophecy that was supposedly foreseen by the OT writers, what the New Testamant has to say has zero value on this issue if it cannot be externally verified.

For the fourth time:


excerpts from the Bible that specifically mention the character "Jesus" (no, not *a messiah* who could be pattern matched to any poor sap, I want "Jesus" ), proven to have been penned prior to his supposed birth, that lay out the specifics of how this person yet to be born is going to die - nothing wishy washy I want unambiguous details, and yes I will check to see if these accounts were written *after* the supposed event.

Then present evidence this event actually occured in the manner which the Bible describes (no, don't just point to the Bible and chant the Bible says so!), without being arranged by people who had already read about this 'prophecy'.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You seem to care enough to ask the question in a thread, respond to me twice and to deliberately fail to actually read what I wrote the first time.

[b]is there no champion among the atheists to take the Agers challenge?
There are plenty, but you simply declare anything we say "banalities non entities and gross generalities". It is you that is not up to being challenged.[/b]

i have provided sixteen Biblical references, you would think that someone other than
penguin would make reference to at least one of them in their arguments, but noooooo!

Originally posted by Agerg
You haven't actually provided the Biblical evidence I asked for which you ignored on 3 occassions. Given that it's a prophecy that was supposedly foreseen by the OT writers, what the New Testamant has to say has zero value on this issue if it cannot be externally verified.

no it doesn't for their fulfilment is recorded in the so called new testament, (actually
they are a continuous whole, testament is not an accurate translation, new covenant
(agreement is better) , so lets recap, we have a book, spanning 1,500 years, written
by more than 40 different authors, from different backgrounds, from humble
fishermen to great Kings, which forms a harmonious whole from beginning to end, containing prophecy
which the writers themselves in some instances could not explain, which found
fulfilment centuries later and its not inspired, anyone else feeling their bum to make
sure they are not dreaming at this point, so hard to belief is Agers assertion?

and before you cry, hes running away, i am being booted from the PC because my
family demands my attention, bring on a champion that i may have some sport at
least! 😛

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no it doesn't for their fulfilment is recorded in the so called new testament, (actually
they are a continuous whole, testament is not an accurate translation, new covenant
(agreement is better) , so lets recap, we have a book, spanning 1,500 years, written
by more than 40 different authors, from different backgrounds, from humble
fishermen t ...[text shortened]... y
family demands my attention, bring on a champion that i may have some sport at
least! 😛

So if I write a book detailing some prophecy, then someone comes along and writes in its fulfillment later on, that counts as evidence it was fulfilled in your eyes! hilarious!! ;]

Originally posted by Agerg
So if I write a book detailing some prophecy, then someone comes along and writes in its fulfillment later on, that counts as evidence it was fulfilled in your eyes! hilarious!! ;]

if you are inspired to write a prophecy of which you knew not its meaning and someone
else came along an actually fulfilled it and recorded its fulfilment that would be closer
to the actual truth. For example if you stated that new york would be an uninhabitable
waste ground in two hundred years and it got destroyed never to be inhabited again
and archaeologists came along and identified it as new york, then that would be
something, hey wait a minute, thats what Isaiah prophesied concerning Babylon, it
would never be inhabited again and hey, its uninhabited, well well, what is hilarious is
your failure to explain why, what is hilarious is in fact your lack of anything substantive
to explain any prophetic fulfilment of any of the references that were provided, it is to
laugh! muhaha!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if you are inspired to write a prophecy of which you knew not its meaning and some
else came along an actually fulfilled it and recorded its fulfilment that would be closer
to the actual truth. for example if you stated that new york would be an uninhabitable
waste ground in two hundred years and it got destroyed never to be inhabited again
...[text shortened]... the prophetic fullfilment of any of the references that were provided, it is to
laugh! muhaha!

for example if you stated that new york would be an uninhabitable
waste ground in two hundred years and it got destroyed never to be inhabited again
and archaeologists came along and identified it as new york, then that would be
something

So if some dickhead with a nuke reads this prophecy and 'makes it come true' you'd find this remarkable!? 😕

I already have some prophecies waiting by the way...you'll be amazed when they come true ;]

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]for example if you stated that new york would be an uninhabitable
waste ground in two hundred years and it got destroyed never to be inhabited again
and archaeologists came along and identified it as new york, then that would be
something

So if some dickhead with a nuke reads this prophecy and 'makes it come true' you'd find this remarkable!? 😕[/b]

umm they didn't have nuclear weapons until the nineteen fifties dear Agers, we are
talking Babylon, you know, spears and shields, what is remarkable is that it remains
uninhabited to this very day, how did Isaiah know that, 200 years in advance that it
would be destroyed never to be inhabited again, do tell. . . . .

sooo you can tell the furure, how intwesting, do you also read tarot cards, gaze into
crystal balls, read palms, Gypsy Rose Agers, fortunes told, just cross my palm with
silver

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if you are inspired to write a prophecy of which you knew not its meaning and someone
else came along an actually fulfilled it and recorded its fulfilment that would be closer
to the actual truth. For example if you stated that new york would be an uninhabitable
waste ground in two hundred years and it got destroyed never to be inhabited again ...[text shortened]... any prophetic fulfilment of any of the references that were provided, it is to
laugh! muhaha!

Btw...

In 1983, Saddam Hussein started rebuilding the city on top of the old ruins (because of this, artifacts and other finds may well be under the city by now), investing in both restoration and new construction. He inscribed his name on many of the bricks in imitation of Nebuchadnezzar. One frequent inscription reads: "This was built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar, to glorify Iraq". This recalls the ziggurat at Ur, where each individual brick was stamped with "Ur-Nammu, king of Ur, who built the temple of Nanna". These bricks became sought after as collectors' items after the downfall of Hussein, and the ruins are no longer being restored to their original state. He also installed a huge portrait of himself and Nebuchadnezzar at the entrance to the ruins, and shored up Processional Way, a large boulevard of ancient stones, and the Lion of Babylon, a black rock sculpture about 2,600 years old.

When the Gulf War ended, Saddam wanted to build a modern palace, also over some old ruins; it was made in the pyramidal style of a Sumerian ziggurat. He named it Saddam Hill. In 2003, he was ready to begin the construction of a cable car line over Babylon when the invasion began and halted the project.

An article published in April 2006 states that UN officials and Iraqi leaders have plans for restoring Babylon, making it into a cultural center.[38][39]

As of May 2009, the provincial government of Babil has reopened the site to tourism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon

looks like your claim it will never be inhabited agains is coming false!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
umm they didn't have nuclear weapons until the nineteen fifties dear Agers, we are
talking Babylon, you know, spears and shields, what is remarkable is that it remains
uninhabited to this very day, how did Isaiah know that, 200 years in advance that it
would be destroyed never to be inhabited again, do tell. . . . .

erm, lemme think... Some war monger with a crap load of spear wielding minions to command figured he'd make the prophecy come true??? 😕