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    20 Apr '11 14:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Sorry, I will not butt in anymore. You seem to know the
    subject well enough that you don't need my help.
    no indeed the more the merrier !
  2. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 14:361 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    no indeed the more the merrier !
    Prophecy:

    Not one person who agrees with Robbie Carrobie on this issue of prophecies shall make a response with any bearing on Robbie Carrobie's posts (either directly or indirectly) within this thread.
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    20 Apr '11 14:37
    Originally posted by Agerg
    As others have shown, this game goes along the lines of looking at these references, pointing out that they could have been `written true' afterwards, and/or fail to specifically mention Jesus such that they could have been matched to any number of different people - and then you come along and call these objections unsubstantiated bumf.


    Show us some exce ...[text shortened]... n we can look at the rest of this tripe and see if they weren't 'written true' afterwards.
    yes they are unsubstatiated pure and utter bumf, you called for the references, now
    you have been given them and you proffer what in return, super hyper bumf. Lets
    see what has transpired so far,

    twithead claims the 'obvious', either the events themselves were engineered or that
    persons knew of the prophesies themselves and engineered their writing before
    hand, evidence absolute zero! the centre of a black hole of a doughnut! It has been
    shown not only to be unlikely that entire nations effected by prophecy could have
    been engineered, but that that in he case of events it extremely improbable, for
    example the crucifixion itself and its details or being born in Bethlehem. That it
    could have matched any number of different people is also bogus, for it has been
    shown, that through his lineage, through his place of birth, through the works that he
    achieved it could have been none other than the Christ. Indeed , it is well known
    that many messiahs stepped forth in Israel, yet only one remains, the Christ,
    making the claim demonstrably false!

    Let it be known throughout the spirituality forum Agers has not produced one
    credible reference, not one substantiated claim, not one iota of testimony to the
    contrary that either Christ was the Messiah or that prophecy is sure proof of
    inspiration. Let it be known!
  4. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 14:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes they are unsubstatiated pure and utter bumf, you called for the references, now
    you have been given them and you proffer what in return, super hyper bumf. Lets
    see what has transpired so far,

    twithead claims the 'obvious', either the events themselves were engineered or that
    persons knew of the prophesies themselves and engineered thei ...[text shortened]... ther Christ was the Messiah or that prophecy is sure proof of
    inspiration. Let it be known!
    So we explain how the fabricated nonsense in your Bible could easily have been rendered true by later authors and then you call our arguments unsubstantiated?

    This thread is a joke 😵
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    20 Apr '11 14:43
    Originally posted by Penguin
    Fair enough, the Bethlehem city/tribe argument is a bit weak, I will accept that.

    The Joshua / Jesus complaint was also nit-picking but if both names have similar meanings. They are still different though so I don't think it is entirely invalid. The important bit of that prophesy is the virgin birth and we have no reliable evidence that such an event happ ...[text shortened]... eader (albeit spiritual rather than political/military) was born in that town.

    --- Penguin.
    Penguin you are the most honourable of the forces of Atheism, it is refreshing to hear
    you speak in these terms, the murders of the innocents shall be addressed, for what
    we know is that its well within Herods character to perpetrate such a scheme!
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    20 Apr '11 14:46
    Originally posted by Agerg
    So we explain how the fabricated nonsense in your Bible could easily have been rendered true by later authors and then you call our arguments unsubstantiated?

    This thread is a joke 😵
    nope your lack of anything contrary to the claims of scripture is a joke, at least penguin
    is prepared to admit the weakness of his arguments, but then again, hes the only one
    from the forces of atheism that has tried to proffer a credible argument, all you have
    done is strut around like professor yattle the carved wooden bookend from bagpuss
    and claim of the mice and the mice organ that magic doesn't happen.
  7. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 14:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    nope your lack of anything contrary to the claims of scripture is a joke, at least penguin
    is prepared to admit the weakness of his arguments, but then again, hes the only one
    from the forces of atheism that has tried to proffer a credible argument, all you have
    done is strut around like professor yattle the carved wooden bookend from bagpuss
    and claim of the mice and the mice organ that magic doesn't happen.
    You have offered us nothing than a collection of fragmented references that could *easily* be identified with characters other than Jesus, and could *easily* have been written true or engineered true by later authors or people.

    I know you set low standards for evidence and proof, and it's ok - you're a JW, it comes with the territory. We atheists however need something a little bit stronger ;]
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    20 Apr '11 14:54
    As I said in my other thread, why don't you offer us

    excerpts from the Bible that specifically mention the character "Jesus" (no, not *a messiah* who could be pattern matched to any poor sap, I want "Jesus" ), proven to have been penned prior to his supposed birth, that lay out the specifics of how this person yet to be born is going to die - nothing wishy washy I want unambiguous details, and yes I will check to see if these accounts were written *after* the supposed event.

    Then present evidence this event actually occured in the manner which the Bible describes, without being arranged by people who had already read about this 'prophecy'.
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    20 Apr '11 14:57
    Originally posted by Agerg
    You have offered us nothing than a collection of fragmented references that could *easily* be identified with characters other than Jesus, and could *easily* have been written true or engineered true by later authors or people.

    I know you set low standards for evidence and proof, and it's ok - you're a JW, it comes with the territory. We atheists however need something a little bit stronger ;]
    fragmented references? they are found in the scripture, strange how a number of
    fragmented references, written by different others, over differing epochs could all
    point to one personage, the Christ, that is without inspiration, funny that, now how do
    you explain it? evidence for your claims of engineering, zilch, centre of the worlds
    largest doughnut and a veritable vacuous region! we have now by my reckoning given
    sixteen Biblical references, none of which you have managed to satisfactorily
    rationalise away, I mean you might make at least one attempt, say the destruction of
    Babylon, that it would never be inhabited, how do you rationalise that away dear
    Agers, do tell, is it just another coincidence? a fluke of nature that its never been
    rebuilt, what heresy and make it up as you go along atheism will you apply in its
    instance, do tell.
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    20 Apr '11 14:591 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    fragmented references? they are found in the scripture, strange how a number of
    fragmented references, written by different others, over differing epochs could all
    point to one personage, the Christ, that is without inspiration, funny that, now how do
    you explain it? evidence for your claims of engineering, zilch, centre of the worlds
    larges ...[text shortened]... t, what heresy and make it up as you go along atheism will you apply in its
    instance, do tell.
    But they don't point to "Jesus"...any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
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    20 Apr '11 15:03
    Originally posted by Agerg
    But they don't point to "Jesus"...any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump to write that this magic horse was called lucy and suddenly all of these idiots were talking about lucy!!! 😵
    they dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
    dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
    than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
    can read besides the cartoon pages.
  12. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 15:041 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    they dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
    dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
    than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
    can read besides the cartoon pages.
    Well then for the third time now, please present us with

    excerpts from the Bible that specifically mention the character "Jesus" (no, not *a messiah* who could be pattern matched to any poor sap, I want "Jesus" ), proven to have been penned prior to his supposed birth, that lay out the specifics of how this person yet to be born is going to die - nothing wishy washy I want unambiguous details, and yes I will check to see if these accounts were written *after* the supposed event.

    Then present evidence this event actually occured in the manner which the Bible describes, without being arranged by people who had already read about this 'prophecy'.

    Otherwise you're asking for evidence something didn't exist and well...we can just appeal to the fact there is not one shred of evidence to support it's existence and so we should dismiss it.


    Show me evidence Gandalf didn't exist before he remade the world please.
  13. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 15:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    they dont point to Jesus, evidence nil, references nil, reasoning nil, content nil, you see
    dear Agers, why should we take your word for it, its not that we are more sceptical
    than others, simply that we prefer broadsheets to tabloids, you know something we
    can read besides the cartoon pages.
    and I'll say it again because you missed the point first time round:

    any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
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    20 Apr '11 15:162 edits
    Originally posted by Agerg
    and I'll say it again because you missed the point first time round:

    any idiot can back up any other number of idiots who write about some magical flying horse - it then just takes one chump (having read what others wrote about magic horses) to write about a magic horse called Lucy and suddenly, by your reasoning, all of these idiots were talking about Lucy!!! 😵
    ill say it again seeing that you missed it the first time, you have proffered no
    evidence, no references, no content, absolutely nil, and here you are making
    references about idiots this and idiots that, Agers, will you please post something with
    content, you have proffered nothing, its absolutely empty and deviod, and the more
    this is drawn to your attention the less and less credible your arguments, or in this
    instance, lack of, becomes apparent.
  15. Standard memberAgerg
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    20 Apr '11 15:221 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ill say it again seeing that you missed it the first time, you have proffered no
    evidence, no references, no content, absolutely nil, and here you are making
    references about idiots this and idiots that, Agers, will you please post something with
    content, you have proffered nothing, its absolutely empty and deviod, and the more
    this is drawn ...[text shortened]... on the less and less credible your arguments, or in this
    instance, lack of, becomes apparent.
    But again you're missing the point - the point being that the structure of my rebuttal about magic horses matches the structure of your Christ prophecies. Your arguments are flawed, I and many others are showing you *how* they are flawed.

    Indeed the only thing that counts as content in your view is stuff which supports your argument -go figure! 😵
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