The apologetics game!

Originally posted by FMF
OK, I'll put it this way instead: Have you ever met any other people who told you they self-identify as Christians and yet claimed that they did not accept the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine?

Have you ever met anyone who told you "I self-identify as Christian"? Or have you ever told anyone "I self-identify as theist"? Seriously, when have you ever heard anyone describe themselves as being "self-identified"?

As for answering your other poorly worded question: The Bible contains Christian doctrine. I've seen evidence of this being true because the Bible does indeed contain Christian doctrine.

I could answer more of your questions if you put some thoughtful care in how those questions are worded. If you could stop interjecting your own personal biases into the questions you ask then maybe more people would be willing to answer your questions, and you wouldn't feel the need to be constantly demanding answers.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]So don't dance around this and just tell me... do you believe the Bible is the word of God?

No. I am not a Christian. I do not believe the Bible ~ or the Koran or the Torah, for that matter ~ is "the word of God". Unlike me, you call yourself a Christian and yet you have indicated that you do not accept the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctri ...[text shortened]... ne ~ and certainly not to me. I have no religious beliefs that I seek or am able to proselytise.[/b]

Yes, you told me you were a theist. But I have been asking you how is a theist different from being an atheist. You told me you were not an atheist. So I will ask you again, what is the difference?

Originally posted by FMF
Divegeester is a Christian. It's baffling that you seem unaware of this.

Is there anything here that doesn't baffle you?

Originally posted by lemon lime
Yes, you told me you were a theist. But I have been asking you how is a theist different from being an atheist. You told me you were not an atheist. So I will ask you again, what is the difference?

I am a theist out of instinct but not a religionist. I do not think there is no God so I cannot be described as an atheist.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Have you ever met anyone who told you "I self-identify as Christian"? Or have you ever told anyone "I self-identify as theist"? Seriously, when have you ever heard anyone describe themselves as being "self-identified"?

You are missing the point behind using the term "self-identify". There are plenty of "TrueChristian" wrestling matches here in this forum ~ with some Christians sometimes declaring other Christians not to be real Christians. By referring to Christians as those who "self-identify" as Christians, I take this 'Christian X declares Christian Y to be not-a-Christian' aspect out of the question, and instead refer to Christians as being all those who assert that they are followers of Christ and so "self-identify" as Christians.

Originally posted by lemon lime
As for answering your other poorly worded question: The Bible contains Christian doctrine. I've seen evidence of this being true because the Bible does indeed contain Christian doctrine.

If this is so, why have you told us that you do not accept the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I could answer more of your questions if you put some thoughtful care in how those questions are worded. If you could stop interjecting your own personal biases into the questions you ask then maybe more people would be willing to answer your questions, and you wouldn't feel the need to be constantly demanding answers.

My questions have been straight forward, point blank, and have arisen directly from ~ and have responded to ~ the exact things that you have said. For example, if you do not accept the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine, upon what evidence do you base your belief that Christ rose from the dead? This question could not be more concise and on target and free of "bias" and yet you have been unwilling to give a straight answer.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Seriously, when have you ever heard anyone describe themselves as being "self-identified"?

I haven't suggested that anyone describes themselves as being "self-identified". But numerous Christians ~ in fact, probably just about all, at some point or other ~ who are active in debates and discussions identify themselves as being Christians, and they are a diverse lot. What they have in common is that they identify themselves to this community as Christians, even if not all other Christians always agree with them about doctrine or even question their Christian identity.

Originally posted by FMF
I am a theist out of instinct but not a religionist. I do not think there is no God so I cannot be described as an atheist.

So why do you call yourself a theist instead of an agnostic, what is the difference between a theist and an agnostic? And what does it mean to be a theist "out of instinct"? Does this mean your theism is based on a feeling but not on something you can put into words?

And as for Dive being a Christian, how do you know this? I have yet to see any evidence. I've seen him join in with atheists who mock Christians, and I've seen him join you in ganging up on a few particular Christians, but this doesn't constitute evidence of him being a Christian. In fact, some months ago wolf indicated that (in essence) Dive was a theist, and Dive didn't argue with him about that.... so was wolf wrong (or lying) when he said Dive was a theist? And why did Dive in essence agree with wolf by not correcting this perception of him and set the record straight?

So how often do beliefs here usually change? Once a month, once every three months... once a year? Or does the belief-cycle here depend on the attention span of the average theist?

Originally posted by FMF
If this is so, why have you told us that you do not accept the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine?

I see. So you are going to ignore what I said about that and continue asking the same flawed question. I suppose I could copy and paste the answer I gave you on the other page... would that be of any help to you?

Originally posted by lemon lime
And as for Dive being a Christian, how do you know this?

I have known him well for years and have read thousands of his posts.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I see. So you are going to ignore what I said about that and continue asking the same flawed question. I suppose I could copy and paste the answer I gave you on the other page... would that be of any help to you?

You have been evading the question for several pages. If you want to retract what you 'revealed' on page 12 then perhaps you should. Copy pasting any of the many evasions you have attempted in the meantime is not going to work, I don't think.

Originally posted by lemon lime
So how often do beliefs here usually change? Once a month, once every three months... once a year? Or does the belief-cycle here depend on the attention span of the average theist?

I held firm Christian beliefs for about 25 years ~ followed by a few years of increasing doubts ~ and have identified myself as a non-Christian or ex-Christian for more or less a decade.

Originally posted by lemon lime
In fact, some months ago wolf indicated that (in essence) Dive was a theist, and Dive didn't argue with him about that.... so was wolf wrong (or lying) when he said Dive was a theist?

You are a theist. Divegeester is a theist. RJHinds and sonship are theists. wolfgang59 is not. He was right to describe divegeester as a theist. You would be right to self-identify as a theist. I'd be rather surprised if you really do not know the meaning of the word "theist", so your question is a bit peculiar.

Originally posted by FMF
You are a theist. Divegeester is a theist. RJHinds and sonship are theists. wolfgang59 is not. He was right to describe divegeester as a theist. You would be right to self-identify as a theist. I'd be rather surprised if you really do not know the meaning of the word "theist", so your question is a bit peculiar.

Eureka, I finally got a straight answer out of you!