Originally posted by @sonshipInserting your own words into the Bible again? Where is this gift business in the BibleAnother reason why the Christian can rest assured that he will never lose the eternal life is that to do so would mean that God gave to Christ fraudulent gifts.
You see the saved are a gift God has given to Christ.
[b] " I have manifested Your name to the men whom you gave Me out of the world. They were Yours and You gave them to Me, and the ...[text shortened]... not give jokes to His Son - those with eternal life who latter lose that eternal life.
You see the saved are a gift God has given to Christ.
Originally posted by @sonshipPick a topic you think we disagree on or agree I will join in. Disagreeing would be better, we may learn something!
KellyJay,
If you want to talk over some passages with me, I offer respectful discussion.
I simply usually tell folks WHY I believe as I believe.
I am so disgusted with this accusing false slanderer Rajk999 that I can't even SEE his words anymore to give reply. Let Rajk999 gather up his few atheist friends and try to deceive them.
...[text shortened]... ing.
If they have eternal life then do not, what kind of gifts are that to the Son of God ??
Originally posted by @sonshipI have to say I find this interpretation of these verses slightly creepy. One is given eternal life simply to be given as gifts (playthings?) between deities. Ach-y-fi as they say in Wales.
Another reason why the Christian can rest assured that he will never lose the eternal life is that to do so would mean that God gave to Christ fraudulent gifts to Christ.
You see the saved are a gift God has given to Christ.
[quote] [b] " I have manifested Your name to the men whom you gave Me out of the world. They were Yours and You gave them to ...[text shortened]... God would not give jokes to His Son - those with eternal life who latter lose that eternal life.
I thought this chapter was simply Jesus praying for the welfare of his disciples before he went off to be betrayed, once again demonstrating the virtue of putting others before himself.
Originally posted by @ragwortThe impression you were suppose to get is just the OPPOSITE.
I have to say I find this interpretation of these verses slightly creepy. One is given eternal life simply to be given as gifts (playthings?) between deities. Ach-y-fi as they say in Wales.
I thought this chapter was simply Jesus praying for the welfare of his disciples before he went off to be betrayed, once again demonstrating the virtue of putting others before himself.
The Christians as GIFTS to Christ are not as a plaything.
Jesus was putting praying for the accomplishment of the eternal purpose of God.
Yes, He puts other before Himself. But this is more than an ethical matter of putting others before Himself. You should count this mighty prayer of Christ to be for God to accomplish the very reason for which He created the universe and man in it.
You should consider Revelation 21 and 22 to be the final answer to this petition of Christ to the Father. That climax of the history, or the Bible and of the end of age launching into eternity is the full answer of the Father to the prayer of Jesus in john 17.
Originally posted by @kellyjayWell, I'm pretty sure that you believe Jesus is wonderful and I believe that Jesus is glorious so maybe we should have a win / win debate about that.
Pick a topic you think we disagree on or agree I will join in. Disagreeing would be better, we may learn something!
On the other hand I believe that Jesus is sweet and you believe that Jesus is precious. Maybe we should debate that.
Praise Him.
Originally posted by @sonship😉
Well, I'm pretty sure that you believe Jesus is wonderful and I believe that Jesus is glorious so maybe we should have a win / win debate about that.
On the other hand I believe that Jesus is sweet and you believe that Jesus is precious. Maybe we should debate that.
Praise Him.
More can be said about the OP.
If God were not omniscient then it might be possible for the Christian to lose eternal life and perish after being given to Christ. The ludicrous reason would be that God did not KNOW that latter the eternal life given to us would be lost.
Such a thought is absurd though because God is omniscient. He would not make the "mistake" of giving people to Christ for eternal life yet ignorantly unaware that they would lose the gift of eternal life.
God did not give the men and women to Christ as a token favor. What God gives to Christ is for eternity.
The gracious gift of eternal life of God is irrevocable.
"For the gracious gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Rom. 11:29)
Having the assurance of eternal life is a firm foundation to grow on. For immediately the accuser of the brethren, Satan, will accuse the Christian that he no longer belongs to Christ at some point.
Contrary to assurance being a license to live loosely as a Christian it should be a firm footing to stand upon for the trials to come.
The early disciples were told that it was THROUGH much tribulation that they must enter the kingdom of God. So they had need of endurance. The long distance run for the reward of the kingdom needs the assurance that the eternal life CANNOT be revoked.
" Establishing the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and seeing that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22)
God GIVES the believers to Christ.
" I have manifested Your name to the men whom you have given Me out of the world.
They were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." (John 17:1)
This forms the basis for us to believe that the believers were given as GIFTS to Christ by God the Father.
Christ in turn gives ETERNAL LIFE to all whom the Father has given to Him.
" Even as You [Father] have given Him [the Son] authority over all flesh to give ETERNAL LIFE to all whom You have given Him." (John 17:2)
The eternal life is defined as knowing the Triune God - knowing through the Holy Spirit the Father and the Son:
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ." (v.3)