The Bible does not belong to Individuals.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Are you going to respond to my quite brilliant post above, or are you choosing to ignore it?

I am naturally choosing to ignore it as it refutes my assertions.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
People who decide to leave their congregation are labelled 'apostates', 'mentally diseased' and are shunned by family members. Can you see why they might not have anything positive to say?

Just a quick google search for 'ex jw' brings up numerous sites for JW's who have left the organisation. Here's a few tit-bits -

First, let me say this. ul.

I found that within a few minutes of searching. I see no hatred there.

The problem you have with this type of [brilliant] post, is that JW's are not allowed to read anything regarded as anti-JW. Therefore robbie cannot comment on the content of these websites, as he has not visited them - how he comes to believe these lucky people are all "disgruntled" "haters" must be either guesswork or regurgitation from the mouth of the JW governing body.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am naturally choosing to ignore it as it refutes my assertions.

Another brick is removed from the wall. 🙂

Originally posted by divegeester
The problem you have with this type of [brilliant] post, is that JW's are not allowed to read anything regarded as anti-JW. Therefore robbie cannot comment on the content of these websites, as he has not visited them - how he comes to believe these lucky people are all "disgruntled" "haters" must be either guesswork or regurgitation from the mouth of the JW governing body.

I found those quotes in the time it took me to eat an omelette this morning, hardly investigative research. Now the question is in x amount of weeks/months time will Robbie still be referring to them as 'haters'. If he does, we can refer him back this thread.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Meh, I don't see why you constantly single out the JW's. I find it common for churches in general to want to co-opt some of the Bible's authority for themselves. They want to cleave to a specific interpretation of scripture while denying it is an interpretation at all.

However, none of the WT quotes given say anything about READING the Bible. All they are saying is that you cannot interpret it on your own, without their organization.

The Watchtower would rather the JW's not read the Holy Bible, but read their publications instead so they can tell them what to believe. This way they can quote scripture out of context and change the wording in their NWT to agree with their dogma as much as possible. The member JW's are to believe in the WT and not JC.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Watchtower would rather the JW's not read the Holy Bible, but read their publications instead so they can tell them what to believe. This way they can quote scripture out of context and change the wording in their NWT to agree with their dogma as much as possible. The member JW's are to believe in the WT and not JC.

yeah that's why on our headquarters in Brooklyn, just across the Brooklyn bridge we
had a huge sign, Read Gods word the Bible daily. Your knowledge barely surpasses that
of a garden gnome.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Another brick is removed from the wall. 🙂

I feel its more like,

"You're wrong Robbie, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Watchtower would rather the JW's not read the Holy Bible, but read their publications instead so they can tell them what to believe. This way they can quote scripture out of context and change the wording in their NWT to agree with their dogma as much as possible. The member JW's are to believe in the WT and not JC.

“Reading and studying the Bible regularly will help you to develop godly qualities.”

The Watchtower website

Goals and Methods

Approach your Bible reading session in a prayerful and focused frame of mind. Ask Jehovah to help you develop an eagerness to study his Word. Petition him to open your mind and heart to grasp his wisdom more fully. (Ps. 119:34) Without this kind of approach, Bible study can quickly become mechanical, and you may lose the desire to continue. Lynn says: “I sometimes read too fast and completely miss interesting side points. Often, I don’t fully grasp the main ideas. I pray for self-control, though, and this helps to keep my mind from wandering.”

Value what you learn. Remember that understanding and applying Bible truths means your life. Therefore, make a conscientious effort to find practical points and apply them. “I look for things that help me to identify wrong attitudes and motives in myself,” says Chris. “It’s refreshing to see how the Bible and many of our publications contain information that benefits me personally, even though the writers have never met me.”

Set attainable goals for yourself. Try to learn something new about Bible characters. You can find fascinating facts about many of them by consulting Insight on the Scriptures or the Watch Tower Publications Index. As you get to know men and women of the Bible as real people with personalities and feelings, they will come alive in your mind.

Look for new ways to reason on the Scriptures. (Acts 17:2, 3) Sophia studies with that in mind. “My desire is to learn and develop fresh lines of reasoning to use in my ministry and at other times, so that I can express myself clearly about Bible truths. The Watchtower is an excellent tool for accomplishing this,” she says.—2 Tim. 2:15.

Visualize Bible accounts. “The word of God is alive,” states Hebrews 4:12. As you read the Scriptures, let God’s message live in your mind by imagining what the Bible characters were seeing. Try to hear what they were hearing and feel what they were feeling. Associate their experiences with specific circumstances in your life. Learn from the way they handled situations. This will enhance your understanding and retention of Bible accounts.

Devote time to difficult scriptures and to explanations of them so that you understand them clearly. Allow yourself plenty of time for each study session. You may well come across very interesting questions that require extra research. Look up unfamiliar words, consider footnotes, and check cross-references in the Bible. The more you understand and apply what you read, the more you will find delight in God’s written Word. You will then be able to say, as did the psalmist: “I have taken your [Jehovah’s] reminders as a possession to time indefinite, for they are the exultation of my heart.”—Ps. 119:111.

Avoid rushing through the material. Be reasonable in the amount of time you schedule for personal study. Balance this with the time you devote to preparing for congregation meetings. “Many times I feel so tense that I can’t concentrate,” says Raquel. “So I find short study periods beneficial. These help me to derive the greatest benefit from my study.” Chris admits: “When I feel rushed, my conscience bothers me because I retain so little. The material usually doesn’t reach my heart.” Therefore, take your time.

Develop a greater longing for God’s word. The apostle Peter said: “As newborn infants, form a longing for the unadulterated milk belonging to the word, that through it you may grow to salvation.” (1 Pet. 2:2) Babies do not have to cultivate a longing for milk. The feeling comes naturally. But the Scriptures acknowledge that we do have to form a longing for God’s word. If you read just one page of the Bible every day, that longing will soon come. What may at first have seemed difficult will soon become pleasurable.

Meditate on Scriptural passages. Great benefit also comes from meditating on what you read. This will help you to link together spiritual topics that you have investigated. Soon you will acquire a string of spiritual pearls of wisdom—a delightful possession.—Ps. 19:14; Prov. 3:3.

The Watchtower website

I found those quotes in the time it took me to eat an omelette this morning, hardly investigative research. Now the question is how long will it take before people accept that the Watchtower does not encourage JWs not to read the Holy Bible.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I am happy to consider it.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
“Reading and studying the Bible regularly will help you to develop godly qualities.”

The Watchtower website[/i]

Goals and Methods

Approach your Bible reading session in a prayerful and focused frame of mind. Ask Jehovah to help you develop an eagerness to study his Word. Petition him to open your mind and heart to grasp his wisdom mo ...[text shortened]... t to read the Holy Bible.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I am happy to consider t.

I found those quotes in the time it took me to eat an omelette this morning, hardly investigative research.

Hey, that's my line!!! 🙂

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]I found those quotes in the time it took me to eat an omelette this morning, hardly investigative research.

Hey, that's my line!!! 🙂[/b]

Until relatively recently, plagiarism was considered a compliment.

Then the lawyers got involved. 😠

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I feel its more like,

"You're wrong Robbie, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

Give over, i have refuted your assertion that anybody who leaves the JW's is a 'hater' and it took me about 3 minutes to do so. That's been one of your themes for a while on this board now, the question is - How did you come to the conclusion that everybody who left was a 'hater'?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Give over, i have refuted your assertion that anybody who leaves the JW's is a 'hater' and it took me about 3 minutes to do so. That's been one of your themes for a while on this board now, the question is - How did you come to the conclusion that everybody who left was a 'hater'?

no, my position is based upon the following,

1. they take partial quotations from articles and misrepresent our position, evidence
for this has been provided twice, once in a thread by Rajk, who posted an excerpt
without actually having read the article it was taken from and divesgeester who also
posted a partial quotation (twice) from an article that he had not read and which
grossly misrepresented our position.

2.There position is one of extreme bias, exclusively made up of individuals who for
one reason or another have ceased to be Jehovahs witnesses either through their
own volition or after having been removed for failing to meet the moral
requirements, despite attempts to assist them to do so. This in itself will lead to a
biased perspective.

3.They have not once produced a positive statement about Jehovahs witnesses or
our activity, no not once. Simply stating that such and such a person was not
disgruntled or has no issues with the elders is not a positive statement, its simply a
prelude to a self justifying rant designed to disarm the reader and to convince them
as to the purity of their motives. If they have said anything positive then please
produce it.

4. The principles on which we base our stance have been largely ignored and
despite the fact that in some instances they also claim to be Christians have not
provided a shred of evidence as to why we should abandon those Biblical principles
which form the basis of their objections to our stance, making their position one of
religious hypocrisy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, my position is based upon the following,

1. they take partial quotations from articles and misrepresent our position, evidence
for this has been provided twice, once in a thread by Rajk, who posted an excerpt
without actually having read the article it was taken from and divesgeester who also
posted a partial quotation (twice) from an a ...[text shortened]... as to the purity of their motives. If they have said anything positive then please
produce it.

Just to be clear, who is 'they'? Who are you talking about?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Just to be clear, who is 'they'? Who are you talking about?

the originators of the articles and those persons who copied and pasted the articles
without having actually read them in their original context, knowing that it would lead to
a gross misrepresentation of our position.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
“Reading and studying the Bible regularly will help you to develop godly qualities.”

The Watchtower website

Goals and Methods

Approach your Bible reading session in a prayerful and focused frame of mind. Ask Jehovah to help you develop an eagerness to study his Word. Petition him to open your mind and heart to grasp his wisdom more f ...[text shortened]... to read the Holy Bible.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I am happy to consider it.

I was tempted to leave you in your ignorance but I decided that would be selfish. My post is about interpreting and understanding the Bible. I told you that already but you foolishly insist that I am referring to simply reading the Bible. Its about interpreting and understanding.

In the OP I said ..

Good examples of attempted mind-control and brainwashing by the Watch Tower. In particular, telling people that they cannot read and understand the Bible for themselves is contrary to the most basic of Bible instructions which is to READ THE BIBLE. Nowhere does the Bible say anything about any orgainsation interpreting the Bible for you.

The WT Org says that you need them to interpret the Bible. I produced quotes in the OP as well which supports that. Galveston already says that you cannot interpret the Bible yourself either.

Your post supports this as well. Your post says to read the Bible .. but do it in conjunction with aids from the WT org .. use their resources to help with interpretation. Now if you were knowledgeable about the doctrine of the JWs you would know that their publications are biased in a particular direction and they use a specific translation and a skewed interpretation which has led them to conclude the following which are unBiblical :

- that they are Gods chosen people and no longer are the Jews Gods people as the Bible says
- that they form the 144,000 saints referred to in revelation
- that the rest of the world will be destroyed in armageddon.

Thats is just a few of their false doctrines contained in their teachings. The JW congregation MUST follow the teachings of the WT. There is no room for alternative views as dissenters are sidelined.

You need to read more and talk less.

You might need to eat about 1000 omelets before you have an understanding of the JW doctrine.