The Bible does not belong to Individuals.

Originally posted by Rajk999
was tempted to leave you in your ignorance but I decided that would be selfish. My post is about interpreting and understanding the Bible. I told you that already but you foolishly insist that I am referring to simply reading the Bible. Its about interpreting and understanding.

In the OP I said ..

d examples of attempted mind-control an

You might need to eat about 1000 omelets before you have an understanding of the JW doctrin

they use a specific translation and a skewed interpretation which has led them to
conclude the following which are unBiblical - Rajk

Please provide evidence that our translation leads to a skewed interpretation and the
promulgation of non biblical doctrines. After all, i can produce evidence from
associate professor Jason BeDuhn that its the most accurate English translation
available, but then again he can only read Greek and knows what's hes talking
about, in comparison to you, whose qualifications are a tendency to provide quotations
taken out of context from articles that you have not read ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I was tempted to leave you in your ignorance but I decided that would be selfish. My post is about [b]interpreting and understanding the Bible. I told you that already but you foolishly insist that I am referring to simply reading the Bible. Its about interpreting and understanding.

In the OP I said ..

[i]Good examples of attempted mind-control an ...[text shortened]...

You might need to eat about 1000 omelets before you have an understanding of the JW doctrine.[/b]

I was responding to RJHinds claims.

You need to read more carefully.

(1000 omelettes with my cholesterol?)

You still haven't offered any evidence for you claims of brain washing and mind control, by the way. What you say is very reminiscent of Dasa. It is because I say so, and you are foolish (yep, just like Dasa).

When you have evidence, please post it and I will change my opinion based on it. Not on your say so.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I was tempted to leave you in your ignorance but I decided that would be selfish. My post is about [b]interpreting and understanding the Bible. I told you that already but you foolishly insist that I am referring to simply reading the Bible. Its about interpreting and understanding.

In the OP I said ..

[i]Good examples of attempted mind-control an ...[text shortened]...

You might need to eat about 1000 omelets before you have an understanding of the JW doctrine.[/b]

Oh, and a church offering their own Biblical study aids? Surely not!! No other Church has done that ever.

The fact that they teach what you consider to be false religion has no bearing on your claims of brain washing and mind control. Unless you are saying that all religions are engaged in this (which would find favour in some quarter here).

Do you have the context of the quotes you posted or not?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Watchtower would rather the JW's not read the Holy Bible, but read their publications instead so they can tell them what to believe. This way they can quote scripture out of context and change the wording in their NWT to agree with their dogma as much as possible. The member JW's are to believe in the WT and not JC.

Your becoming more of a fool everytime you speak....

Originally posted by Rank outsider
Oh, and a church offering their own Biblical study aids? Surely not!! No other Church has done that ever.

The fact that they teach what you consider to be false religion has no bearing on your claims of brain washing and mind control. Unless you are saying that all religions are engaged in this (which would find favour in some quarter here).

Do you have the context of the quotes you posted or not?

Good postings. But don't hold your breath as we've been going around with him on this for years and he has yet to produce what your asking for. He has turned his back on all religions as far as I can tell and is the only righteous person on this planet.......according to him.

While I am agreeing with Rajk more here than the opposition (RO,RC,etc), I feel Rajk has been out debated, and because of his "take no prisoners "approach ,( i wouldn't want to liken him to Dasa), his point has been lost in his poor presentation.

The reason I agree with the "brainwashing" claim is based on my own personal meetings with some ex JWs AND JWs and also reading the watchtower and going through opinions on rhp,etc. ...

I would also like to add that I think it is not as bad in some JWgroups as others.
Why are they such a significant part of my life? Maybe because they come to every house I 've ever lived in ... Even out in the bush ... eeek!!

Originally posted by karoly aczel
While I am agreeing with Rajk more here than the opposition (RO,RC,etc), I feel Rajk has been out debated, and because of his "take no prisoners "approach ,( i wouldn't want to liken him to Dasa), his point has been lost in his poor presentation.

The reason I agree with the "brainwashing" claim is based on my own personal meetings with some ex JWs A ...[text shortened]... e because they come to every house I 've ever lived in ... Even out in the bush ... eeek!!

Well Rajk is only here to promote HIS beliefs and condemn everyone beliefs as he's proved for years now. He has knowledge on some levels, I'll give that to him, but he has missed out on the most important "quality" and that is "Love" that was the bases of Jesus teachings. Jesus would approach everyone no matter who they were and would invite them in a loving way to listen and never condemned them.
This is the whole problem with our friend here and until he sees that major issue and figures out the way to change his personality, he may as well forgo his biblical knowledge as that will get him no where in God's eyes.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well Rajk is only here to promote HIS beliefs and condemn everyone beliefs as he's proved for years now. He has knowledge on some levels, I'll give that to him, but he has missed out on the most important "quality" and that is "Love" that was the bases of Jesus teachings. Jesus would approach everyone no matter who they were and would invite them in a lo ...[text shortened]... he may as well forgo his biblical knowledge as that will get him no where in God's eyes.

I would go along with that , more or less, but maybe Rajk should be given the chance to at least acknowledge his contradictory nature?

Or maybe clear whatever up, here, it seems you (G-75) have more of a history with him than before I came along..

Originally posted by galveston75
Well Rajk is only here to promote HIS beliefs and condemn everyone beliefs as he's proved for years now.

Isn't this exactly what you and robbie carobie do?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well Rajk is only here to promote HIS beliefs and condemn everyone beliefs as he's proved for years now. He has knowledge on some levels, I'll give that to him, but he has missed out on the most important "quality" and that is "Love" that was the bases of Jesus teachings. Jesus would approach everyone no matter who they were and would invite them in a lo ...[text shortened]... he may as well forgo his biblical knowledge as that will get him no where in God's eyes.

When are you going to learn that you cannot find love on an internet chat forum.
Go get some help.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
While I am agreeing with Rajk more here than the opposition (RO,RC,etc), I feel Rajk has been out debated, and because of his "take no prisoners "approach ,( i wouldn't want to liken him to Dasa), his point has been lost in his poor presentation.

The reason I agree with the "brainwashing" claim is based on my own personal meetings with some ex JWs A ...[text shortened]... e because they come to every house I 've ever lived in ... Even out in the bush ... eeek!!

You need to think a bit deeper Karoly and use a few more of the braincells deep inside your head somewhere. These discussions are not about presentation or debating skills.

Originally posted by divegeester
Isn't this exactly what you and robbie carobie do?

Talk about pot calling the kettle black. They condemn all other religions. Claim that all the world is under the influence of Satan except the JWs. Accuse me of not showing love when all they do is love themselves.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The reason I agree with the "brainwashing" claim is based on my own personal meetings with some ex JWs AND JWs and also reading the watchtower and going through opinions on rhp,etc. ...

Thanks karoly aczel,

Just to be clear, I have not contended that the claims are untrue. How can I? I am not a JW, have never been a JW, have only met a few briefly in my life, I am as sure as I can ever be that I will never be a JW, and that the JWs would never want me!

I have simply contended that no evidence has been provided for it in this post.

I am, however, suspicious that some aspects of the supposed 'brain washing' and 'mind control' will be little different to what many other churches do in terms of advocating the primacy of their beliefs. So why single out JWs unless this is just a witchhunt?

Most of us will have seen examples of 'miracle working' pastors, some of whom use techniques on congregations that could be construed as 'mind control', and some which are pure deceit (e.g. simple conjuring tricks and illusions used to pretend that people have been 'healed'😉. These techniques have been documented, their effects replicated by men of no faith and their tricks exposed. On the latter at least, I would hope all forum members would condemn these practices.

I can only see two ways this line of argument can be resolved:

1) It is ackowledged that the terms 'brain washing' and 'mind control' were too extreme, and the debate moves on to issues of verifiable fact. It is not good enough to say, I don't like the JWs, they are bad, so I can make any claim I like about them.

2) Reliable evidence is provided which supports the contention. As yet, none has been provided.

Despite what Rajk999 says, this is a debating forum, and if he is going to post defamatory remarks he should expect to be asked to justify them.

Originally posted by Rajk999
These discussions are not about presentation or debating skills.

Agreed. But they are, or should be, about debate.

Your skills in debating are not the weakness here, but the lack of any evidence to support your views.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Talk about pot calling the kettle black. They condemn all other religions. Claim that all the world is under the influence of Satan except the JWs. Accuse me of not showing love when all they do is love themselves.

Lets see, why do we express those accusations you are making? Is there any Biblical PROOF of this and not just our opinion?

We condemn all religions? Well yes we do as the Bible clearly explains that Jesus's true followers would be NO part of this world but yet would go out into the world to do the ministry work that Jesus himself did and commanded his followers to do. They would also not be involved in support the worlds wars and would never kill another human. These are just a couple examples.
We truely wish all religions would join us in this preaching and teaching work and would not send there members off to war, but they don't.

And we claim that satan is the ruler of this world as the Bible clearly says that exact truth.

John 14:30
Good News Translation (GNT)

30 I cannot talk with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me,


John 12:31
Good News Translation (GNT)

31 Now is the time for this world to be judged; now the ruler of this world will be overthrown.


John 16:11
Good News Translation (GNT)

11 and they are wrong about judgment, because the ruler of this world has already been judged.

These are Jesus own words.


And yes we do love ourselves which is a truth in the Bible and a sign of a true brotherhood that Jesus spoke of.

1 Thessalonians 4:9-10
Good News Translation (GNT)

9 There is no need to write you about love for each other. You yourselves have been taught by God how you should love one another.10 And you have, in fact, behaved like this toward all the believers in all of Macedonia. So we beg you, our friends, to do even more.

Romans 12:10
Good News Translation (GNT)

10 Love one another warmly as Christians, and be eager to show respect for one another.


So what exactly is the problem? You make these accusations as if they were bad things and NOT the truth??