1. Melbourne, Australia
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    08 Sep '12 02:52
    The collection of historical writings of the Middle East over some thousands of years, known as "the Bible" has been turned into an idol.
    What is an idol? Something physical made to be the equivalent of a god, that has powers of that god and is worshipped just like the god. It is unquestionable like the god. Anyone dealing with that physical object poorly, even by logically contradicting it or questioning it is blaspheming against the god, and in the past could under threat of death.Today its severe disapproval and ostracization and being pronounced unpatriotic or a heathen. But the true heathens are the idol-worshippers!
    Idols were made to control people. To exceise emotional and actual power, by those wanting to keep hold of that power.
    The Bible is not God or the very words that came out of "his" so-called "mouth". To see it like that is to treat it as an idol, and to be easily manipulated by others who use its many diverse and often contradictory words and stories from a wide span of human history to lead people by their naive and uninformed noses, to do what the powerful want. It is particularly used by the Christian Right to equate "Bible obeying" with national patriotism.
    It is used to back up every despots ideas by carefully selecting verses out of context and saying its "God's Word", so bow down and obey the idol folks - or else!
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 03:01
    Originally posted by Taoman
    The collection of historical writings of the Middle East over some thousands of years, known as "the Bible" has been turned into an idol.
    What is an idol? Something physical made to be the equivalent of a god, that has powers of that god and is worshipped just like the god. It is unquestionable like the god. Anyone dealing with that physical object poorly, ...[text shortened]... f context and saying its "God's Word", so bow down and obey the idol folks - or else!
    The Holy Bible is also an instructional book in righteousness for mankind. It, however, is not an idol and is not worshipped as you claim. I understand that you make this claims out of ignorance, since you are not of the Christain religion. Otherwise, I would accuse you of lying and in league with Satan the devil. 😏
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    08 Sep '12 04:192 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible is also an instructional book in righteousness for mankind. It, however, is not an idol and is not worshipped as you claim. I understand that you make this claims out of ignorance, since you are not of the Christain religion. Otherwise, I would accuse you of lying and in league with Satan the devil. 😏
    Below is a quote from a committed bible-respecting Christian, making the point from his Christ following perspective, a much more balanced one that allows inconsistencies to be questioned and verses and documents placed in historical perspective, rather than made into an infallible, legalistic and scientific textbook that puts forth the words as direct from God in an idolatrous manner, as is so often seen on this forum.

    He is discussing a problematical verse about the role of women...

    "...The real issue is that this one statement in Scripture is not in line with so much else in Scripture.

    Which is a real problem if you think the Bible is the inerrant, infallible, perfect Word of God.

    The thing is, the Bible doesn’t make this claim about itself. The Bible makes this claim about Jesus Christ. The Bible doesn’t claim to be the Word of God. It says Jesus is. According to John 1.1, Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus is the perfect, inerrant, infallible Word of God. The Bible also tells us that nothing and no one is perfect, except God alone.

    Even if the Bible had dropped down out of the sky, even if God had emailed us the PDF directly, even if no humans were involved in writing, editing, compiling, and deciding on which documents to include (OT, NT), the Bible would still be something other than God’s own Triune Person. The Bible is not God."

    http://mikeraburn.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/the-bible-is-not-the-word-of-god-part-1/

    By the way, I was of the Christian religion but "apostasized", because I could not consistently and logically hold the beliefs I was expected to obey unquestioningly.

    I am not at all ignorant of the Christian way. I hold a Licentiate in Theology. I guess on that account, for some, I am really the arch enemy and of "Satan".
    This is the standard historical approach (and burning at the stake, torture, etc) that is used by those holding power to suppress dissent and questioning.
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Sep '12 04:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible is also an instructional book in righteousness for mankind. It, however, is not an idol and is not worshipped as you claim. I understand that you make this claims out of ignorance, since you are not of the Christain religion. Otherwise, I would accuse you of lying and in league with Satan the devil. 😏
    If it isn't an idol, then why do you stick the word 'holy' in front of it?
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 04:37
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Below is a quote from a committed bible-respecting Christian, making the point from his Christ following perspective, a much more balanced one that allows inconsistencies to be questioned and verses and documents placed in historical perspective, rather than made into an infallible, legalistic and scientific textbook that puts forth the words as direct from G ...[text shortened]... t God."

    http://mikeraburn.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/the-bible-is-not-the-word-of-god-part-1/
    We Christains say the Holy Bible is inspired of God and contains the words of God. It also contains the words of Satan the devil and the Pharisees. We don't claim everything written in it is perfect truth. Some people misunderstand it like the JW's. However, just because they misunderstand things does not mean it was not inspired of God for or learning and it is not meant for us to worship. There is no where in there that tells us to worship the scriptures. That is what the Holy Bible is, scriptures inspired of God. Most Christians understand that when we refer to the Holy Bible as the word of God, we are referring to the teachings from God and His Christ that are in it. We are not referring to the false teachings from Satan the devil that is also in there for our learning as examples of what is sinful and wrong.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 04:421 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    If it isn't an idol, then why do you stick the word 'holy' in front of it?
    It is Holy because the true Triune God inspired holy men to write it snd it contains some words spoken by God and His Christ.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

    P.S. By the way, an idol is never Holy. An idol is an abomination to God.
  7. Joined
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    08 Sep '12 04:53
    Originally posted by Taoman
    The collection of historical writings of the Middle East over some thousands of years, known as "the Bible" has been turned into an idol.
    What is an idol? Something physical made to be the equivalent of a god, that has powers of that god and is worshipped just like the god. It is unquestionable like the god. Anyone dealing with that physical object poorly, ...[text shortened]... f context and saying its "God's Word", so bow down and obey the idol folks - or else!
    some people have the need for icons, idols, talismans or a combination of all three and other things as well to find an anchor to their beliefs. without such anchors, their beliefs would float away in the wind.

    there are some who have found a more stable anchor in their own selves and these are the people how have attained true enlightenment. the ones desperately holding on to obsolete and external idols of the past or idols newly created will never achieve enlightenment.
  8. Melbourne, Australia
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    08 Sep '12 05:21
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    some people have the need for icons, idols, talismans or a combination of all three and other things as well to find an anchor to their beliefs. without such anchors, their beliefs would float away in the wind.

    there are some who have found a more stable anchor in their own selves and these are the people how have attained true enlightenment. the one ...[text shortened]... obsolete and external idols of the past or idols newly created will never achieve enlightenment.
    It's an attitude that keeps a lot of people in a state of slavery of the mind, unable to question and advance in their spiritual growth. Whatever path is chosen, one needs to be able to question it and disagree.

    Use all these things, benefit from them, discuss them freely, even reverently, but do not worship any of them as "God" or direct from "God". There are great and inspiring passages in the Bible. It is finally the heart within that chooses and identifies inspiration for each. It is our inner enlightenment, recognized or not, that ultimately does so, not some imposed "authority", that has never worked and never will.
    I do not disparage Christian believers, but an illogical and unquestioning virtual worship to a quite human collection of writings based on theistic belief.

    Thanks VS.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 05:22
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    some people have the need for icons, idols, talismans or a combination of all three and other things as well to find an anchor to their beliefs. without such anchors, their beliefs would float away in the wind.

    there are some who have found a more stable anchor in their own selves and these are the people how have attained true enlightenment. the one ...[text shortened]... obsolete and external idols of the past or idols newly created will never achieve enlightenment.
    You are not to have any idols, shame on you.
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    08 Sep '12 05:31
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You are not to have any idols, shame on you.
    the shame is on you for lacking the education to comprehend what i said.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 05:36
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    the shame is on you for lacking the education to comprehend what i said.
    Ha ha ha 😀 That is funny coming from the king of the road to no comprehension.
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    08 Sep '12 12:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Ha ha ha 😀 That is funny coming from the king of the road to no comprehension.
    You really are a complete doofus
  13. Wat?
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    08 Sep '12 13:01
    Do people refer to 'idols' or 'icons'?

    I'm sure Simon Cowell likes idols, but not many, if any, are icons. 😉

    -m.
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    08 Sep '12 14:221 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It is Holy because the true Triune God inspired holy men to write it snd it contains some words spoken by God and His Christ.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

    P.S. By the way, an idol is never Holy. An idol is an abomination to God.
    As to the meaning of words - words have nuances, different meanings, not JUST the ones you say they have.

    Wiki on "Holy"

    "Holiness, or sanctity, is in general the state of being holy (perceived by religious individuals as associated with the divine) or sacred (considered worthy of spiritual respect or devotion; or inspiring awe or reverence among believers in a given set of spiritual ideas).In other contexts, "objects are often considered 'holy' or 'sacred' if used for spiritual purposes", such as the worship or service of gods. These terms can also be used in a non-spiritual or semi-spiritual context ("sacred truths" in a constitution). It is often ascribed to people ("a holy man" of religious occupation, "holy prophet" who is venerated by his followers), objects ("sacred artifact" that is venerated and blessed ), times ("holy days" of spiritual introspection, such as during winter holidays), or places ("sacred ground", "holy place"😉."
    -----------------------------

    Many things are regarded as holy including idols and the Bible. I have no difficulty myself with any book, icon etc as being regarded as sacred or revered. I do have difficulty when questioning the historical setting of verses, books of the bible, etc. is not to be allowed, simply because some one says this is the "very Word of God", which is the equivalent to making a book an idol. You may have a more sane approach to the Bible like some other Christians around, but there are many who become automatons about the Bible and its unquestionability..

    Nothing is an abomination because its an idol, its the chains of the mind it can impose that is an abomination. The abomination is not recognizing an idol as a very human idol, and making it into a real god, or with godlike powers, like being the direct "word of that god". Who can question GOD, after all? That's how power mongers have enchained huge numbers of people in the "book religions".

    If I appreciate spiritually the beautiful Genesis story as more like poetry than scientific textbook, this is somehow heresy to some blinkered ones. Or to protest that ancient laws in the Old Testament are not "God's word" just when you want, and the next similar verse is ignored because its awkward. Perhaps its just an ancient Middle Eastern bit of literary archeology and can be stated as such.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Sep '12 14:292 edits
    Originally posted by mikelom
    Do people refer to 'idols' or 'icons'?

    I'm sure Simon Cowell likes idols, but not many, if any, are icons. 😉

    -m.
    An icon, I believe, is a visual object used as a symbol to represent a person, place, thing, or idea. Icons ae not something meant to be worshipped. Icons are used to remnd us of smething else.

    The bread and wine are special knds of icons used in "the Lord's supper" to remind us of the body and blood of Christ that He sacrificed for us so tha we may accept His gift of salvation of our own bodies and eternal life that He shall give us at His return. The crucifix and the simple cross are other icons used to remind us of this same sacrifice of Christ in a different way and also to identify ourselves as Christians.

    Icons are also used in many other ways, such as those used by Microsoft Windows to represent actions on a computer. None of these are meant to be worshipped.
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