Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]But yes, if I sacrifice my life to save a truckload of babies, kittens, and puppies, believing that sacrifice to be the end of me, then how does not that make me more courageous than you, if you sacrificed your life to save a truckload of babies, kittens, and puppies, since you *know* it won't be the end of you?

This is the stupidest state . And I will defend him if I see someone or something trying to harm him.[/b]

…Why does a atheist fear death?
They won't remember anything,
They go back to nothing, right were they came from, so they think.
No pain, no anything. What's to fear about that?
.…

So you can argue that fear of death for an atheist is not “rational” -so what? Rational or not, atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this?

And the greater the fear a person has to overcome of death, with all else being equal, the greater the bravery of the act of that person for deliberately sacrificing his life for others.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]I never used the words or implied the words “….a bigger and braver hero than ANYONE with faith in God”

Andrew, Read the title of your thread, this thread. Then read your first post.
It very much implies that any atheist who sacrifices their life for others is braver, meaning more heroic, than anyone with faith or belief in God or the after life. You may not quite have meant it that way. But that's what's stated.[/b]

…It very much implies that ANY atheist who sacrifices their life for others is braver, meaning more heroic, than “ONYONE” with faith or belief in God or the after life. .… (my emphasis)

You have just done it again -this time using the word “ANY” as well as the word “ANYONE ” -obviously I don’t make nor imply sweeping generalisations to be taken as generalisations that have no exceptions. I am talking here, at best, about averages rather than hard and fast rules. Please stop pretending that I am not.

The title of this thread doesn’t imply that atheists are generally braver (if that is what you are implying here) but, rather, it implies that out of all the bravest ACTS, the bravest ones are by atheists -think about that -it doesn’t mean the same thing!

Let me put it this way:

For I know, it could be true that the most cowardly act of all time has been preformed by an atheist and that the average bravery of an atheist is less than that of a theist BUT neither of these two things would logically contradict the assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…It very much implies that ANY atheist who sacrifices their life for others is braver, meaning more heroic, than “ONYONE” with faith or belief in God or the after life. .… (my emphasis)

You have just done it again -this time using the word “ANY” as well as the word “ANYONE ” -obviously I don’t make nor imply sweeping generalisations to be t ...[text shortened]... ally contradict the assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.[/b]

Andrew, It is against the rules of RHP to reply & quote to a post and then change the original post that you're replying to, to make it look as you wish.
Please refrain from changing my posts that you're replying to trying to make it look like I stated something a certain way which is false.

ANYONE, was actually stated anyone. and ANY was any. Thank you.

…It very much implies that ANY atheist who sacrifices their life for others is braver, meaning more heroic, than “ONYONE” with faith or belief in God or the after life. .…

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…It very much implies that ANY atheist who sacrifices their life for others is braver, meaning more heroic, than “ONYONE” with faith or belief in God or the after life. .… (my emphasis)

You have just done it again -this time using the word “ANY” as well as the word “ANYONE ” -obviously I don’t make nor imply sweeping generalisations to be t ...[text shortened]... ally contradict the assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.[/b]

assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.
This is your assertion. You asked for comments so I gave you mine. I very much think this is false.
The fact that the same act is done by two different people that have two different beliefs systems, is still the same act. Weather a bravery act, or a cowardly act. The belief systems don't play a role in it.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…Why does a atheist fear death?
They won't remember anything,
They go back to nothing, right were they came from, so they think.
No pain, no anything. What's to fear about that?
.…

So you can argue that fear of death for an atheist is not “rational” -so what? Rational or not, atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) ...[text shortened]... reater the bravery of the act of that person for deliberately sacrificing his life for others.[/b]

atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. And Christians and people of other faiths generally still fear death (including myself) do you deny this?

And the greater the fear a person has to overcome of death, with all else being equal, the greater the bravery of the act of that person for deliberately sacrificing his life for others.

This is were I disagree.
The act is still the same act of bravery. The person with more fear just brought themselves to the level of the person that had less fear. Seeing as they did the same act. They both overcame the fear and did the act. Weather more fear or less fear. Yes one maybe had to overcome more fear, but it's still the same act of bravery.

There's also another option of, a depressed person who just doesn't care about themselves anymore or their life, And threw the depression gave their life up for others. Did a good deed, but as a form of suicide also.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. And Christians and people of other faiths generally still fear death (including myself) do you deny this?

And the greater the fear a person has to overcome of death, with all else being equal, the greater the bravery of the act of that person for deliberatel ...[text shortened]... he depression gave their life up for others. Did a good deed, but as a form of suicide also.

So the suicidal person in your example is just as brave as the Christian or the atheist who doesn't want to die?

Originally posted by convect
So the suicidal person in your example is just as brave as the Christian or the atheist who doesn't want to die?

Yes. They still laid their life down for others to live on. Still the same act of bravery. Just killing two birds with one stone, so to speak.

And it should be honored as a act of bravery by those still living.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
Andrew, It is against the rules of RHP to reply & quote to a post and then change the original post that you're replying to, to make it look as you wish.
Please refrain from changing my posts that you're replying to trying to make it look like I stated something a certain way which is false.

ANYONE, was actually stated anyone. and ANY was any. ...[text shortened]... aver, meaning more heroic, than “ONYONE” with faith or belief in God or the after life. .…[/b]

…It is against the rules of RHP to reply & quote to a post and then change the original post that you're replying to.…

Excuse me - NOT if you state clearly what those changes where that you made:
note the words I wrote at the end of it in brackets -I am referring to the “(my emphasis)” part -how is that “trying to make it look like I stated something a certain way which is false” ? -I clearly indicated that it was MY emphasis.
Exactly what falsehood do I make out by emphasising those words?

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.
This is your assertion. You asked for comments so I gave you mine. I very much think this is false.
The fact that the same act is done by two different people that have two different beliefs systems, is still the same act. Weather a bravery act, or a cowardly act. The belief systems don't play a role in it.[/b]

…assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.
This is your assertion..…

WRONG!!!! You are clearly making out here that I was saying that that assertion is in fact correct.
-will you stop twisting everything I say. You have taken this out of context and you know it!
I obviously was NOT saying nor implying that that assertion was in fact correct!

Lets have a reminder of the WHOLE paragraph it was in but this time with some appropriate emphasises:

“For I know, it could be true that the most cowardly act of all time has been preformed by an atheist and that the average bravery of an atheist is less than that of a theist BUT neither of these two things would logically contradict the assertion that the bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist.

Where does it say or imply that it is indeed the case that the “bravest act of all time has been preformed by an atheist”? -obviously that was NOT my argument here. I emphasise the “For I know” at the start of the paragraph here because this clearly indicates that I was speaking hypothetically.

Originally posted by muppyman
I can't see any sin perception attached to the act. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends"

But what if a theist kills a man who, if left alive, would kill 100,000 people. Would he be rewarded?

Originally posted by KingDavid403
[b]atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. And Christians and people of other faiths generally still fear death (including myself) do you deny this?

And the greater the fear a person has to overcome of death, with all else being equal, the greater the bravery of the act of that person for deliberatel he depression gave their life up for others. Did a good deed, but as a form of suicide also.

…atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. ..…[/b]

Then what was the point of your earlier comments?

Reminder:

“…Why does a atheist fear death?
They won't remember anything,
They go back to nothing, right were they came from, so they think.
No pain, no anything. What's to fear about that?
.… “

doesn’t the words “What's to fear about that? “ imply that atheists don’t have anything to fear about death and doesn’t that whole paragraph imply that atheists don’t fear death? -if not, then what is the point you were trying to make here?

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
…atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. ..…

Then what was the point of your earlier comments?

Reminder:

“…Why does a atheist fear death?
They won't remember anything,
They go back to nothing, right were they came from, so they think.
No pain, no anything. What's to fear about that?
.… “ ...[text shortened]... that atheists don’t fear death? -if not, then what is the point you were trying to make here?[/b]

A theist fears death because he fears non-salvation could be his fate if he screws up in life. So he projects that fear onto atheists whom he knows little about, only what he has been brainwashed into believing which is exactly what gets people killed in religious wars.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
…atheists generally still “fear” death (including myself) -do you deny this? No. ..…

Then what was the point of your earlier comments?

Reminder:

“…Why does a atheist fear death?
They won't remember anything,
They go back to nothing, right were they came from, so they think.
No pain, no anything. What's to fear about that?
.… “ ...[text shortened]... that atheists don’t fear death? -if not, then what is the point you were trying to make here?[/b]

The point I'm trying to make here is that we all fear death. And I explained pretty clearly in my previous posts why I as a person of faith still fear death.
And you didn't answer my question fairly of do you deny people of faith fear death?

You're saying that a theist should somehow fear death less because of a belief in the afterlife. I was showing you that a atheist really shouldn't fear death then either.

That was my point here.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all fear death. And I explained pretty clearly in my previous posts why I as a person of faith still fear death.
And you didn't answer my question fairly of do you deny people of faith fear death?

You're saying that a theist should somehow fear death less because of a belief in the afterlife. I was sh ...[text shortened]... ing you that a atheist really shouldn't fear death then either.

That was my point here.

…And you didn't answer my question fairly of do you deny people of faith fear death? . ..…

That is because it was a stupid question -of course I don’t deny it -where did I say otherwise?

…You're saying that a theist should somehow fear death less because of a belief in the afterlife….

Generally -yes. But, of course, every case/person is different and I am only talking averages here.
I make no sweeping generalisations here that are meant to be ALWAYS true and without exception.

…I was showing you that a atheist really SHOULDN’T fear death then either. …. (my emphasis)

The word “SHOULDN’T” is the operative word here -regardless of whether or not they “SHOULDN’T” fear death, just like theists, they DO generally fear death.

Originally posted by sonhouse
A theist fears death because he fears non-salvation could be his fate if he screws up in life. So he projects that fear onto atheists whom he knows little about, only what he has been brainwashed into believing which is exactly what gets people killed in religious wars.

A theist fears death because he fears non-salvation could be his fate if he screws up in life.

I'm sure this is the case with some, but not I. I explained my reasons why I fear death in one of my previous posts. You can go back and read if you wish.

So he projects that fear onto atheists whom he knows little about, only what he has been brainwashed into believing

If you're referring to me you are completely off the mark.

As far as the brainwashed part, It took me 7 years to get a 2 year certificate to be a assistant pastor or youth pastor. They kept kicking me out of school because I wouldn't believe their teachings that didn't match scripture. And they kept threatening me to believe their way or get kicked out. Well I just told you what happened. So I wouldn't say brainwashed fits me. 😉

I finally did get my certificate and I never gave in once on my beliefs.