The Challenge

Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
However, what ~you just stated~ was an "invented concept that man manifested as real to them" when they sought out such their understanding under a ~material VIEW~, thereFORE ~losing SIGHT~ of God's creation from the very beginning while they come from the standpoint (this lie that wars the reality, opposed from the dream we have made Life seem to be) ...[text shortened]... his true estate of being (The Image and LikeNESS of INFINITE INTELLIGENCE, that being God)..

ummm, i dont think so, after all, i can observe it happening in my garden, can i not, here its autumn, the cyclical life of plants and vegetation is apparent, not only that, i may draw inferences from it, how wonderfully designed the whole process is, the earth's ability to replenish itself, leading me to the conclusion that it was designed specifically with habitation in mind, leading me to state that yes indeed, this process should self perpetuate, leading me to seek for the intelligence behind this design, i deny that its a purely materialistic approach! in fact through an observation of the physical realm, we may indeed draw inferences about God?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i read a rather interesting quotation recently, i share it with you,

'simple bacteria can divide about every twenty minutes and have many hundreds of different proteins, each containing twenty types of amino acids arranged in chains that might be several hundred long. For bacteria to evolve by beneficial mutations one at a time would take much m ...[text shortened]... or four billion years, the time that many scientists believe life has existed upon the earth'.

You mean you've been reading your Awake! magazine.

For bacteria to evolve by beneficial mutations one at a time would take much much longer than three or four billion years.

Who says they mutate one at a time? That's a huge assumption, and a fallacy to treat evolution as happenening in series. You want to get yourself up to speed with Lenski's bacteria experiments that have been going on for years. A thorn in the side of every creationist.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ummm, i dont think so, after all, i can observe it happening in my garden, can i not, here its autumn, the cyclical life of plants and vegetation is apparent, not only that, i may draw inferences from it, how wonderfully designed the whole process is, the earth's ability to replenish itself, leading me to the conclusion that it was designed specifica ...[text shortened]... in fact through an observation of the physical realm, we may indeed draw inferences about God?

Hey, I do not argue there is a good way to see things that have been created, such as time, and it's false structured foundation that man is developed and accustomed to this acceptance, but time is of a temporal state of action, eternity is what is real..

I am not at all claiming your beautiful garden erroneous in any form, just stating there are many considered equations man finds so, yet is a temporal state ~only~, and ANYONE who has such the ~DESIRE~ as your self, and other Christians in here, can GROW, just as your magnificent garden with much expressed love it's nutriment, to EXPERIENCE complete understanding (abide as the image and likeness of immeasurable intelligence, immeasurable, strength, immeasurable POSSIBILITIES) by all means ~CAN~, even as Christ shared to they he had healed and lifted off their shackles from them (their ignorance)...

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You mean you've been reading your Awake! magazine.

For bacteria to evolve by beneficial mutations [b]one at a time would take much much longer than three or four billion years.

Who says they mutate one at a time? That's a huge assumption, and a fallacy to treat evolution as happenening in series. You want to get yourself up to speed wit eria experiments that have been going on for years. A thorn in the side of every creationist.[/b]

yes, i have it beside me, you have read it, ah spiritual food at the proper time! there is hope for you yet! i hope you didn't illegally download it, it would be cursed after that! you need to get it from your local friendly neighbourhood, spider witness. i like ammanions comments on it, it was so refreshing not to have an atheist tell me i don't know what i am talking about even though that may be the case, in fact, it stunned me into silence. 🙂

Originally posted by tacoandlettuce
Hey, I do not argue there is a good way to see things that have been created, such as time, and it's false structured foundation that man is developed and accustomed to this acceptance, but time is of a temporal state of action, eternity is what is real..

I am not at all claiming your beautiful garden erroneous in any form, just stating there are m rist shared to they he had healed and lifted off their shackles from them (their ignorance)...

its quite a deep comment Taco with so many facets to it! beautiful sentiments, that yes, we all need to grow in our love! the garden analogy is really good, indeed i introduced the idea a while back, in that when we plants flower seeds, flowers grow, if we plant nothing weeds shall grow. I have to admit that the materialists ended up turning it into a gardeners question time eventually trying to convince me that trees were weeds, but some got the sense of it. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its quite a deep comment Taco with so many facets to it! beautiful sentiments, that yes, we all need to grow in our love! the garden analogy is really good, indeed i introduced the idea a while back, in that when we plants flower seeds, flowers grow, if we plant nothing weeds shall grow. I have to admit that the materialists ended up turning it int ...[text shortened]... on time eventually trying to convince me that trees were weeds, but some got the sense of it. 🙂

everyone shall

tis the ~only~ correct equation to LIFE, that being ALL

Originally posted by vishvahetu
So given enough time, the bumbling dead matter can come alive, and then produce millions of complete complex life forms...huuum, I dont think so!

In the UK, it is a 14,000,000 to 1 chance you will win the lottery. Very long odds and very unlikely you will win, yet people still win it.

In a vast universe with billions of years, very long odds become very likely, and the odds aren't even as unlikely as many people realise.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, i have it beside me, you have read it, ah spiritual food at the proper time! there is hope for you yet! i hope you didn't illegally download it, it would be cursed after that! you need to get it from your local friendly neighbourhood, spider witness. i like ammanions comments on it, it was so refreshing not to have an atheist tell me i don't k ...[text shortened]... t i am talking about even though that may be the case, in fact, it stunned me into silence. 🙂

That you don't know what you're talking about on certain matters is taken as a prerequisite now Rob. We don't have to spell it out every time.

As i pointed out your 'spiritual food' made a rather huge fallacy in it's bacteria analogy. I could suggest some books that are a little more informative if you wish?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i read a rather interesting quotation recently, i share it with you,

'simple bacteria can divide about every twenty minutes and have many hundreds of different proteins, each containing twenty types of amino acids arranged in chains that might be several hundred long. For bacteria to evolve by beneficial mutations one at a time would take much m ...[text shortened]... or four billion years, the time that many scientists believe life has existed upon the earth'.

The mutations happen in parallel, and not just in bacteria. Bacteria are able to swop genes with other organisms.
So you need to multiply your rate by the number of bacteria on earth + a fraction of the number of other life forms on earth.

Next you need to know how many possible amino acids can exist and what percentage are beneficial. This is a very important part of the calculation and one that is clearly totally overlooked in your quote, as without it, the calculation is meaningless - after all, generating random amino acids is decidedly easy.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
That you don't know what you're talking about on certain matters is taken as a prerequisite now Rob. We don't have to spell it out every time.

As i pointed out your 'spiritual food' made a rather huge fallacy in it's bacteria analogy. I could suggest some books that are a little more informative if you wish?

then i suggest you take the matter up with the professor who produced the idea, i merely quoted it and ammanion seemed to validate it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
then i suggest you take the matter up with the professor who produced the idea, i merely quoted it and ammanion seemed to validate it.

Send me his email address.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Send me his email address.

i dont know it, he was some Russian dude, write to awake, they may know.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dont know it, he was some Russian dude, write to awake, they may know.

Tracked down and the email is sent.

We await his reply.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Tracked down and the email is sent.

We await his reply.

really? are you a Private investigator in your spare time? i need some info on someone 😉

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really? are you a Private investigator in your spare time? i need some info on someone 😉

Really.

He has a wikipedia page, he is a world leading neuroscientist at Charles University. His email can be found on the Uni's website.