The creative pathway

@FMF

There is no "living Jesus" that "exists", for example. The man has been stone dead for 2,000 years.

Christ is both more living then you are and more believable then you are.

And now you have gone beyond a neutral sounding "lack of belief". You are aggressively preaching that you know for a fact that Christ is dead.

The militancy of your proselytizing is exposed - an evangelist for opposing Jesus the Lord.

" And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

What makes you a privileged character that you shouldn't join them? Their work has become YOUR work also.

Better wise up.

@sonship said
@FMF

There is no "living Jesus" that "exists", for example. The man has been stone dead for 2,000 years.

Christ is both more living then you are and more believable then you are.

And now you have gone beyond a neutral sounding "lack of belief". You are aggressively preaching that you know for a fact that Christ is dead.

The militancy of ...[text shortened]... d character that you shouldn't join them? Their work has become YOUR work also.

Better wise up.

You are getting your personal mental realm of faith and imagination mixed up with a conventional sense of the reality that we all share. You do so by distorting the meaning of words.

The expression "still living Jesus" or the expression "I have met Jesus" are not related to physical reality but are instead metaphors reflecting the psychological intensity of your religious beliefs.

These notions are created by texts. The texts are created by writers.

@sonship said
The militancy of your proselytizing is exposed - an evangelist for opposing Jesus the Lord.

Why shouldn't you be tormented forever ?

I am simply a non-Christian sharing my perspective, sonship. The notion that I deserve to "tormented forever", after I die, for being a non-Christian may appeal to your imagination and your personality but it makes no moral sense and I simply don't believe there is anything real about your religionist threats.

@FMF

You are getting your personal mental realm of faith and imagination mixed up with a conventional sense of the reality that we all share. You do so by distorting the meaning of words.

The expression "still living Jesus" or the expression "I have met Jesus" are not related to physical reality but are instead metaphors reflecting the psychological intensity of your religious beliefs.

No, rather the things which are seen are temporal. The things which are unseen are eternal.

“While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”
2 Cor. 4:18

@FMF

I am simply a non-Christian sharing my perspective, sonship. The notion that I deserve to "tormented forever", after I die, for being a non-Christian may appeal to your imagination and your personality but it makes no moral sense and I simply don't believe there is anything real about your religionist threats.

I point out that the cloak of your neutral sounding and benign "lack belief" facade is falling.

What we see now is a positive and aggressive preaching of a dead Son of God.

Your true colors are more exposed. You are therefore on the wrong side of history and are going to be a loser.

You don't believe in God, you say. God believes in you.
And you're proclaiming a dead and gone Savior Jesus. You can't win with this.

@sonship said
Christ is both more living then you are and more believable then you are.

No, he isn't; he's dead. The idea that he is "living" is a metaphor ~ it's a figure of speech reflecting how vivid he is in your thoughts and memories.

The use of the word "living" to refer to someone who died at the beginning of the 1st century is poetic licence and a metaphysical conceit.

Jesus is not literally "living". The strong beliefs of his followers mean he is only "living" in a metaphorical sense.

It's like saying that my grandmother on my mother's side is still "living" as far as I am concerned because I think of her every day and her great wisdom guides me in my everyday life.

@sonship said
What we see now is a positive and aggressive preaching in a dead Son of God.

I am an agnostic atheist so, of course, I perceive Jesus to be a man who died 2,000 years ago. sonship, I am a non-Christian. I am a non-believer. I am not "preaching" anything about any "Son of God". I am pointing out the reality of the situation and not buying into your obvious metaphors as if they are literal. Everyone, without exception, who was alive 2,000 years ago is now dead and not "living".

@sonship said
And you're proclaiming a dead and gone Savior Jesus. You can't win with this.

"Win" what?

You sometimes sound as if you have never ever encountered - let alone listened to or considered - the perspective of a non-believer before.

Do you really think that non-believers think Jesus is still alive because you keep referring to him as "living"?

You are behaving as if this is the first time in your life you have ever talked to an atheist.

@sonship said
Your true colors are more exposed. You are therefore on the wrong side of history and are going to be a loser.

My "true colours" are that I am not a Christian. These "true colours" have not been "exposed". I have been openly and honestly "not a Christian" here for over a decade.

@FMF

No, he isn't; he's dead.

No. Your spirit is dead.
That facility in you that can substantiate God through direct fellowship with God - is dead.

The death is in you. The deadness is in the kernel of your being, your human spirit.

The idea that he is "living" is a metaphor ~ it's a figure of speech reflecting how vivid he is in your thoughts and memories.

That is what you believe and hope.

Your sins are real.
Your guilt is real.
And the Lord Jesus Who came to die for you and rose is real.

The use of the word "living" to refer to someone who died at the beginning of the 1st century is poetic licence and a metaphysical conceit.

I understand you. But you're mistaken.

Behind the things your five senses can detect is a more real reality which is eternal.

Jesus is not literally "living". The strong beliefs of his followers mean he is only "living" in a metaphorical sense.

Your sins are real.
Your guilt is real.

Justification through the death and resurrection that you might be acquitted is real.

And "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) .

The " [divine] life giving Spirit " is the Lord Jesus and is real.

What is dead is your fellowship and communion with the Holy Spirit. That is what is dead.

" ... dead in your offenses and sins " .

This death is separation from the living God.
It needs to be remedied before it goes to "the second death" which is eternal damnation.

God's law transgressed matters.
Fortunately His love and salvation also matter, if we would receive Him.

You're hoping that there is no God and that transgression against God doesn't matter. Both concepts are lies which cannot live forever.

@sonship said

" And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

What makes you a privileged character that you shouldn't join them? Their work has become YOUR work also.

I am not doing any "work". I am sharing my perspective on a thread on a message board dedicated to the sharing of perspectives such as yours and mine. This is not "work".

I am not going to be "tormented day and night forever and ever". You asserting that I am going to be "tormented day and night forever and ever" is never going to make me believe that I am going to be "tormented day and night forever and ever".

What is the purpose of telling non-believers that they are going to be "tormented day and night forever and ever" for being non-believers?

And what would be the morally sound purpose of causing non-believers to be "tormented day and night forever and ever" after the die [for their non-belief] if the still-living non-believers do not know about it. It's mundane, far-fetched, ill-thought-out, morally incoherent ideology.

@sonship said
@FMF

No, he isn't; he's dead.

No. Your spirit is dead.
That facility in you that can substantiate God through direct fellowship with God - is dead.

The death is in you. The deadness is in the kernel of your being, your human spirit.

[quote]
The idea that he is "living" is a metaphor ~ it's a figure of speech reflecting how vivid he is in you ...[text shortened]... nd that transgression against God doesn't matter. Both concepts are lies which cannot live forever.

I am fully aware of what the tenets of your religion are. Regardless, they do not turn the things you refer to metaphorically into literal things.

@sonship said
And now you have gone beyond a neutral sounding "lack of belief".

On the contrary, I am sticking rigidly to my "lack of belief" and not going "beyond" it all. If you think "neutral sounding" would be silence on my part, then the perspective I am sharing would go unheard, and that would not be compatible with the purpose of a forum like this.

@sonship said
@FMF

@sonship said
@FMF

No, he isn't; he's dead.

No. Your spirit is dead.
That facility in you that can substantiate God through direct fellowship with God - is dead.

The death is in you. The deadness is in the kernel of your being, your human spirit.

The idea that he is "living" is a metaphor ~ it's a figure of speech reflecting how vivid he is in your thoughts and memories.

That is what you believe and hope.

Your sins are real.
Your guilt is real.
And the Lord Jesus Who came to die for you and rose is real.

The use of the word "living" to refer to someone who died at the beginning of the 1st century is poetic licence and a metaphysical conceit.

I understand you. But you're mistaken.

Behind the things your five senses can detect is a more real reality which is eternal.

Jesus is not literally "living". The strong beliefs of his followers mean he is only "living" in a metaphorical sense.

Your sins are real.
Your guilt is real.

Justification through the death and resurrection that you might be acquitted is real.

And "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) .

The " [divine] life giving Spirit " is the Lord Jesus and is real.

What is dead is your fellowship and communion with the Holy Spirit. That is what is dead.

" ... dead in your offenses and sins " .

This death is separation from the living God.
It needs to be remedied before it goes to "the second death" which is eternal damnation.

God's law transgressed matters.
Fortunately His love and salvation also matter, if we would receive Him.

You're hoping that there is no God and that transgression against God doesn't matter. Both concepts are lies which cannot live forever.

I don't think I am being "aggressive" at all.

@sonship said
Behind the things your five senses can detect is a more real reality which is eternal.

You wallowing in "sixth sense" stuff that appeals to your imagination and makes you feel good about yourself is your prerogative, of course. You can do it to your heart's content. It is harmless.

Even your silly threats and warnings about me facing a demented, morally-depraved and inexplicable scenario of never-ending violence at the hands of your very, very vengeful and very, very wrathful god figure ~ for not wallowing in the same stuff that appeals to your imagination ~ is harmless.

You calling it "a more real reality" is harmless. Me lacking belief in all of it ~ and sharing that here ~ is harmless to you and it's harmless to me. We are fortunate in this respect.