The creative pathway

@FMF

You wallowing in "sixth sense" stuff that appeals to your imagination and makes you feel good about yourself is your prerogative, of course. You can do it to your heart's content. It is harmless.

The spiritual sense is not for harm but for completion.
Without the function of the human spirit the human is incomplete.

Even your silly threats and warnings about me facing a demented, morally-depraved

You do not believe there is any moral absolute as a universal straight line of moral goodness. Therefore you cannot authoritatively describe what a crooked line would be.

"Morally depraved" as you describe it therefore has no real meaning.

This is what happens when you want to have your relativistic cake and eat it too.

Like a ballet in outer space there is no reference point of up and down. Everybody is floating helter skelter in your universe with no moral absolute with which to measure conformity or depravity to a real standard of goodness.

Other than your personal taste for what is depraved and what is not, you have no basis for a real judgment.

This is one of the by-products of the luxury of announcing that there is no God.

and inexplicable scenario of never-ending violence at the hands of your very, very vengeful and very, very wrathful god figure

I ask before. How do you know that physical death would mean the end of your ability to sin?

Face it. None of us know that because none of us have been in that realm and come back to describe it. Therefore you simply do not know that continued punishment is the result of continued sinning against God.

If you die frozen in a state of perpetual enmity against God, how do you know that your transgressing Him will not pour forth even more and more somehow from you?

Since by experience none of us on this side of death know, it behooves us to take the words of One who understands this realm. The warning of danger beyond this realm that we do know comes with authority from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

I think you ignore this at your own peril.

Regarding all warnings as bullying threats is insane self love to the point foolishness.

Ie. "Don't tell me not to speed my car in a 30 mile an hour zone at 100 miles an hour. I want to. And I don't like you threatening me like a bully with imaginary adverse consequences."

Ie. " Don't tell me not to jump out of this ten story building window. I want to do whatever I want. I don't like your bullying me with imaginary threats if I do. You are just trying to scare me. Tyrant!"

In this universe God says you need to be reconciled to Him.
Reacting that this is scare tactics only, could be a miscalculation on your part.

Everything in the context of Christ coming to save us, as He was obviously dedicated to at the cost of everything, is shown as love.

If there were no plan of salvation in the Bible, I might assume that threats are someone's idea of bullying me. But since so much of the Scripture describes God's rescue, salvation, willingness to save, redeem, pardon even to the extreme of the Righteous One hanging on a cross to save us from the impartial judgement of the Perfect, I don't regard the warnings from Christ as scaring for scaring's sake as a sick bully.

FMF

I regard your skepticism as a miscalculation of the heart of God and a misreading of the motives of Jesus His Son.

And your accusations that Christians are interested in threatening you for threatening's sake are just miscalculations of our motives.

Maybe you had some bad experiences in the past.
I always refer you to ALL that the Bible says so you could get a well rounded view.

So your attempts to charge me with threatening you may have a feel-good value to you. They do not have the desired effect on me. My conscience is clear.

~ for not wallowing in the same stuff that appeals to your imagination ~ is harmless.

You should notice that this "wallowing" as you say, is something you try to provoke by following my entries with provoking questions.

Long ago I decided "This guy obviously is not interested in the Gospel. Better stop wasting your words on FMF."

Yet YOU relish to follow sonship around with questions as if to beg me to come and talk about it over and over again. On some occasions when I choose not to completely ignore some erroneous point you make, then I am "wallowing".

You intend to try to provoke me and other Christians here to "wallow".. You call it "wallowing". I call it being faithful to re-convey the truth.

Me lacking belief in all of it ~ and sharing that here ~ is harmless to you and it's harmless to me. We are fortunate in this respect.

Well FMF, I have said this before. You may boast how much you lack belief. But I think I better believe the word of God. And the word of God says that you know there is God.

So, I think actually, you know that there is God. Your dislike of this is very strong. But I think it takes more energy for you to believe that there is no God then to suspect that God really is.

In other words, I think you come here and put on a good show. I think what you hate, you actually know - there is a God.

I would suspect that Romans 1:20-22 describes many of the loud and proud atheists here:

" ... men who hold down the truth in unrighteousness,

Because that which is known of God is manifest within them, for God manifested it in them.

For the invisible things of Him, both His eternal power and divine characteristics, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being perceived by the things made, so that they are without excuse;

Because though they knew God, they did not glorify HIm as God or thank Him, but rather became vain in the REASONINGS, and their heart, lacking understanding, was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools ..." etc. etc.

So when I consider choosing between " I lack belief. I lack belief. I lack belief. " and God has manifested at least His existence to your stubborn heart through the witness of His creation, I will go with the latter.

I don't think you are an exception. I think to you also, the witness of God's eternal power and divine characteristics are made known to you by the very universe in which you exist and perceive.

And now I suspect you will continue to put on a good show and demonstrate how much skill and cleverness you have in the effort in "hold[ing] down the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom. 1:18b) .

@sonship said
You do not believe there is any moral absolute as a universal straight line of moral goodness. Therefore you cannot authoritatively describe what a crooked line would be.

I am unimpressed by your claims that you have access to "any moral absolute as a universal straight line of moral goodness". You describe the most ghastly moral nonsense as "perfect morality". That strikes me as being a sign of a broken moral compass. I find your "ultimate justice" and "perfect morality" to be an incoherent heart of darkness. So, you bandying around words like "moral absolute" or "objective" or "truth" in these matters is wasted on me. Your moral compass is every bit as subjective as mine and everyone else's.

@sonship said
"Morally depraved" as you describe it therefore has no real meaning.

If it helps you obtain some grasp of what lack of belief is, then it does have some meaning.

@sonship said
Like a ballet in outer space there is no reference point of up and down. Everybody is floating helter skelter in your universe with no moral absolute with which to measure conformity or depravity to a real standard of goodness.

If superstition has inculcated this misanthropic perspective in you and then superstition has also offered you what seems like the solution to it, then by all means, take solace in your superstition and religion and enjoy the meaning and purpose in life they afford you.

@sonship said
Other than your personal taste for what is depraved and what is not, you have no basis for a real judgment.

Everybody has a basis for making moral judgements; it's called their moral compass. Each one is unique. It is an integral part of your identity and personhood.

@sonship said
This is one of the by-products of the luxury of announcing that there is no God.

I have never once in over ten years here announced that "there is no God", and you know it.

Sonship Casual Dishonesty Alert.

@sonship said
I ask before. How do you know that physical death would mean the end of your ability to sin?

I don't believe there exists such a thing as "sin" except in the minds of theists.

There is not one scrap of evidence anywhere of anyone ever, in the whole of human history, proceeding past, or living on, in any shape or form, after physical death.

@sonship said
If you die frozen in a state of perpetual enmity against God, how do you know that your transgressing Him will not pour forth even more and more somehow from you?

I lack belief in any such thing as "a state of perpetual enmity against God".

@sonship said
Since by experience none of us on this side of death know, it behooves us to take the words of One who understands this realm. The warning of danger beyond this realm that we do know comes with authority from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

Well, I am not a Christian so whatever your beliefs might just so happen to be about "the words of One who understands [death]" and the supposed "authority from the mouth of Jesus Christ", are neither here nor there, as far as I am concerned.

@sonship said
If there were no plan of salvation in the Bible, I might assume that threats are someone's idea of bullying me. But since so much of the Scripture describes God's rescue, salvation, willingness to save, redeem, pardon even to the extreme of the Righteous One hanging on a cross to save us from the impartial judgement of the Perfect, I don't regard the warnings from Christ as scaring for scaring's sake as a sick bully.

I know full well what your religious beliefs are. Reciting bits of it to me isn't going to solve the total moral mish-mash of darkness and incoherence that your torturer god ideology represents.

@sonship said
And your accusations that Christians are interested in threatening you for threatening's sake are just miscalculations of our motives.

Don't worry. The threats are meaningless. The attempted coercion is a waste of time. None of it makes sense. You are doing no harm. As long as you're not regurgitating stuff about non-believers being tormented in burning flames for eternity to children or psychologically vulnerable people, you're doing no harm.

@sonship said
You should notice that this "wallowing" as you say, is something you try to provoke by following my entries with provoking questions.

This is a debate and discussion forum so 'provoking questions' are surely good, no?