The divinity of Christ

More parallel passages proving that Christ is God... Compare the following:

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" (YHWH speaking to Moses - v. 5) Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink" (Exodus 17:6).

...with...

" (Israel) did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ" (1 Cor. 10:4).

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"The seventh day is the sabbath of YHWH your God ... For in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them: therefore YHWH blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it (Gen. 2:2-3) " (Exodus 20:10-11).

...with...

"For the Son of Man (JESUS) is Lord even of the sabbath day" (Matt. 12:8).

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"And YHWH sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people" (Numbers 21:6).

...with...

"Neither may we tempt the Christ, as also certain of them did tempt, and by the serpents did perish" (1 Cor. 10:9).

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"And Manoah said to the Angel of YHWH, 'What is Your Name, that when Your sayings come to pass we may do you honour?' And the Angel of YHWH (God Himself - see vv. 16,22) said to him, 'Why do you ask My Name, seeing it is secret (or, wonderful - Isa. 9:6) ?'" (Judges 13:17-18).

...with...

"He (JESUS) had a Name written that no man knew, but He Himself"
(Rev. 19:12).

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"YHWH killeth and maketh alive: He bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up" (1 Samuel 2:6).

...with...

"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will" (John 5:21).

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" (YHWH speaking) And it shall come to pass in that day ... they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him" (Zech. 12:9-10).

...with...

" (Referring to Christ) And again another scripture says, 'They shall look on Him
(changed from 'Me'😉 Whom they pierced'" (John 19:37).

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"It is written (in Deut. 32:35), 'Vengeance is Mine: I will repay, says the Lord (YHWH) '" (Rom. 12:19).

...with...

"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels; In flaming fire taking vengeance" (2 Thess. 1:7-8).

Originally posted by vistesd
What the...! You and I arguing on the same side?! 😉

I think from a logical point of view, however, ahosyney’s point is well-made.

The logical argument has to be that Jesus may be properly worshipped, according to his divine nature, because of that divine nature. (It is not Jesus’ human nature that can be properly worshipped.) Your exegesis ...[text shortened]... rve. eusebeo, to carry out one’s religious obligations, to act piously, or stand in awe.

What the...! You and I arguing on the same side?! 😉

I know! 😲😀 Lets enjoy it while it lasts... 😉 BTW, I appreciate your post concerning the 'mystery' of Christ. Part of the 'appeal', I believe, of claiming that Christ is not divine is that such a claim seemingly does away with the 'mystery' of Christ. No doubt Jesus is a man, as scripture attests, but he is also God, as scripture attests. Thus the inherent mystery of his Person.

(1) Only God may be properly worshipped.
(2) God became incarnate in/as Jesus.
(3) God’s divine nature may be properly worshipped in whatever form it assumes.
(4) Therefore, God’s divine nature may be properly worshipped in Jesus.

I accept your syllogism; it is superior to mine. Thank you.

EDIT: On second thought, premise (3) I would change to, "God may be properly worshipped in whatever form He assumes," since a person worships God Himself rather than simply "God's divine nature." Premise (4), then, I would change to read, "Therefore, Jesus may be properly worshipped as God."

Thus:

(1) Only God can be properly worshipped
(2) God became incarnate in/as Jesus
(3) God may be properly worshipped in whatever form He assumes
(4) Therefore, Jesus may be properly worshipped as God

There were committed, honest Christians on all sides, as there are today.

Admittedly...

Originally posted by ahosyney
What a logic:

[b](1) God alone is to be worshipped
(2) Satan is worshipped
(3) Therefore Satan is God[/b]

You should have read everything that lead up to that statement.
Kelly

Originally posted by ahosyney
In some of the scripture you cited Pagans worshiped Jesus while he was a baby.

So if you tell me that you follow some pagans in worshiping Jesus, I have no problem. It is up to you.

By the way , Joseph brother's worshiped him as well, but that didn't made him GOD.

EDIT: I have no problem with you or any one, to believe what ever you want, but the s ...[text shortened]... and he worshiped him. So all what you say is like trying to prove that the sun has no light.

I do not deny that Christ exalted the Father, but neither do I deny that scripture also exalts Christ (note the parallel passages I provided proving that Christ is God).

You are perfectly welcome to believe whatever you want, ahosyney. However, what you claim carries little weight, considering your tendency to pick and choose which parts of scripture you deem legitimate.

The God of the Bible is the Almighty, the Creator, the Most High, and no one compares to Him. Jesus Christ cannot be “God” if he says that our heavenly Father is his “God.”

You cannot be the “Most High God” and be in submission to the “Most High God” (1 Cor.15:28) and say that He is your God. This makes no sense.

If words truly have meaning, then one cannot be “God” and have a “God” at the same time.

Check out the verses below that clearly show that our Father is the “God” of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 15:6
…so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…

Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is our glorious Father.

Jesus Christ himself called our Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture.

John 20:17 (KJV)
…I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

If Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God in heaven when the book of Revelation was written, why does Jesus continue to make such clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God” if he himself is God?

Revelation 1:6
…[Jesus] has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father-- to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

If Jesus is God, then why does he pray to God and call Him “the only true God” in John 17:3?

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, Jesus Christ makes a clear distinction between “the only true God” and himself. Jesus called his Father “the only true God,” and that doesn’t leave any room for Jesus to also be “God.”

If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?

Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

He would have been praying to himself, or another “part” of himself. Did he do it for our benefit alone? To be an example for us? If Jesus were praying to himself, or another part of himself, then he was just “acting.” It wasn’t real prayer (the way we know it), because we don’t pray to ourselves, we pray to God.

Was Jesus just “acting” when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane praying to God that there be another way, that “if it is possible, that the cup be taken” from him? He was asking God if there was another way (i.e., another way beside dying a horrible death on a cross). If Jesus is God, then all of his prayers “to God” make him look rather ludicrous.

If Jesus is God, why did he say to his disciples: “Trust in God; trust also in me”?

John 14:1
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”

Notice that Jesus didn’t say “the Father,” he just said “God.” Jesus once again makes a clear distinction between himself and God.

According to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. If that is true, how can the Father be (in any way) greater than Jesus?

John 14:28
“I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”

Mark 13:32
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
(27) For he (God) "has put everything under his (Jesus) feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
(28) When he (God) has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him (God) who put everything under him (Jesus), so that God may be all in all.

Clearly, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 nullifies the idea that Jesus is God. It says: “Now when it says that ‘everything’ has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.”

How could God make it more plain?

Then it goes on to say: “Then the Son himself will be made subject to him (God) who put everything under him (Jesus), so that God may be all in all.”

Right now Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God, given all authority in Heaven and on Earth, and is “functionally” equal with God. But after Jesus has finished the job of restoring paradise, he will eventually be “made subject” to God, so that God may be all in all.

Originally posted by vistesd
What the...! You and I arguing on the same side?! 😉

I think from a logical point of view, however, ahosyney’s point is well-made.

The logical argument has to be that Jesus may be properly worshipped, according to his divine nature, because of that divine nature. (It is not Jesus’ human nature that can be properly worshipped.) Your exegesis ...[text shortened]... rve. eusebeo, to carry out one’s religious obligations, to act piously, or stand in awe.

My point is, if a person claims that Christ is not God, then Christ cannot be worshipped, according to YHWH's claim that no one but the Lord God Himself is to be worshipped. Yet the scripture account clearly shows that Christ is worshipped and should be worshipped. The conclusion, then, is clear: Christ is God, since only God is worthy of worship.

The doctrine of the Trinity states that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Logically, you can’t be 100% of one thing and then even “a little” of something else. That is, if words and numbers have definite meanings.

How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

If Jesus is God and also “like us in every way,” that means we are all 100% man and 100% God. This makes no sense. Either Jesus is not God and truly like us in all ways (a man), or he is God and so are we.

What makes more sense?

Logical Fallacies Employed in Trinitarian Theology


http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=56

Can we “worship” Jesus Christ?

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=215

Originally posted by checkbaiter
According to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. If that is true, how can the Father be (in any way) greater than Jesus?

John 14:28
“I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”

Mark 13:32
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father oring paradise, he will eventually be “made subject” to God, so that God may be all in all.

Again, you are making the scriptural case for Christ's manhood, and no doubt Christ's manhood can be proven. I'm not denying there is a distinction between the Son and the Father, the distinction underscored by the passages which you've cited. Though neither do I, nor can I, deny the scriptural case for Christ's Godhood, underscored by the passages which I've cited. Proof there is a greater mystery involved here which cannot be resolved, only appreciated (i.e. Jesus Christ is somehow both God and man).

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The doctrine of the Trinity states that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Logically, you can’t be 100% of one thing and then even “a little” of something else. That is, if words and numbers have definite meanings.

How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like ...[text shortened]... God and truly like us in all ways (a man), or he is God and so are we.

What makes more sense?

It is not about what makes 'sense'. It is all about what is revealed by scripture, which doesn't necessarily make 'sense'. You are appealing to logic rather than faith in God's word. Logic is employed here as a means to discount the mystery of Christ as both God and man, but faith is not to be based on logic (human wisdom).