2 edits
I’ve already proved you to be in error. The son had a day on which he became a son. Therefore his sonship is not eternal.
Choose any day you like.
Choose the day of His conception.
Choose the day of His baptism.
Choose the day of His transfiguration on the mount with Peter, James, and John..
On all these occasions God said Jesus was His Son.
He was also designated Son of God out of the resurrection from the dead. (Romans 1:4; Acts 13:33)
Regardless of ANY DAY in which you argue the Son was begotten. None of them prove the Son was not eternal.
It’s done, over, finished.
You don’t seem to understand, there are no scripture combinations you can concoct which override this.
You're finished alright. Argument by laziness and boredom is ALL you have left. And they are not very impressive.
Your best chance was to prove that Christ the Firstborn of all creation had a beginning to which beforehand HE WAS NOT. And you cannot do that.
Jehovah Witnesses tried. They are polythiests. They pointed to Proverbs saying that Wisdom was the first thing God made. But the verse says God HAD wisdom not that He MADE wisdom. As long as God has been God has had wisdom.
And if not HOW would God HAVE the wisdom to MAKE Wisdom? Fail.
The Word was God as the Word was with God.
The Son of God was incarnated in His creation. He became a man. Man is an item of creation. So Christ being the Firstborn of all creation means that of all creation Christ is the preeminent One, the One in First place, the MOST important, the highest in office.
When God clothed Himself in creation at a certain time, He was the Firstborn of all creation. And this regardless of WHEN on the time line of the universe He took on the created item of human flesh and blood.
@thinkofone saidJust as you misinterpret the meaning and intent of scripture, you have misjudged me with regard to the content of the various posts in the context of this debate.
You and FMF just can't handle clear, concise and to the point posts. You simply don't have the intellectual fortitude or honesty for objective rational discourse for it.
What you do have in abundance is a bigoted bias against persons, and a wholly shameful disdain for anyone that disagrees with the unsubstantiated nonsense you plaster this forum with.
How ex ...[text shortened]... eally does fit you to a T. Laughably so.
Seriously: Set aside your pride and look in the mirror.
Follow the thread.
2 edits
Anyone reading this thread, and I doubt there is anyone, knows what you wrote. The simple fact sonship is that you are wrong.
“On this day I BECAME your father”
Read it and let it sink into that stubborn dogmatic closed mind of yours.
Strictly speaking it says "You are My Son. This day I have begotten You." (Hebrews 1:5)
In Hebrews chapter one the writer follows this with a question and some remarks. The question is "To which of the angels has God ever said this?" [paraphrase]
The answer to the rhetorical question is "To NO angel" no matter how important, did God say this.
Then there is a discussion in which the writer proves that the Son is the pre-existing Creator of the universe whose duration preceeded it and will outlast it.
If that is TRUE for God then it is true for the Son regardless of what day the Father says He begot Him.
2 edits
Gosh you get so upset when you’re wrong.
Emotions again as a distraction ??
Too bad I am not wrong. Rather the Bible is not wrong - "As to the Son, Your throne, O God ... " [ain't hardly temporary like Divegeester says] ... Rather Your throne O God [the Son] is forever and ever."
Then he goes on to prove the Son is the referent in Psalm 102 as the pre-existing and ever existing eternal Creator.
Besides, you can be a cool and calm heresy teacher if you wish. Doesn't make a not eternal Son in the Bible.
2 edits
Once again. What is the writer trying to communicate when he says the Son (begotten of the Father or not) is without beginning of life or end of days? (Heb. 7:3)
" ... King of Salem, king of peace, Being without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither beginning of days nor end of life,
but likened to the Son of God, abides a priest perpetually." (Heb 2c-3)
He is trying to impress - "This Son of God is from eternity to eternity."
And that even though elsewhere the Bible says "This day I have begotten You. You are My Son."