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@SecondSon
You may notice that like the JWs Dive seems to hold the OT as the closing word of the whole word of God in the Bible.
JWs are very much like this. On matters of death Ecclesiastes is to be consulted before the New Testament.
What we have is the mystery being hidden in God in past generations yet now revealed to the NT apostles and prophets and saints.
See also Romans 16:25,26.
"If indeed you have heard of the stewardship of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
That by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I have written previously in brief, By which, in reading it, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ, Which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in spirit." (Eph. 3:2-5)
Some people cling to the previous revelation of God in the OT to fight down the continued revelation to the New Testament servants of God.
When you see Divegeester want to make Psalm 2 transcend over Acts 13 and Romans 1 this tendency may be at work in him.
The new wine they do not want to be in new wine skins.
The mystery which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations but now has been manifested to His saints. To Whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col. 1:26,27)
It makes no difference, you are 100% categorically wrong.
But you will never admit it because a) your too vain, and b) when you do you will have to re-evaluate your trinitarianism and you can’t do that because you adhere to the entrapping teaching that you have to believe it in order to be saved.
You are trapped is this belief structure.
As far as I can see you are AGREEING with crucial parts of my belief in the Trinity.
I think you may be a closet trinitarian and not realize it. At least in some portions of the explanation of the three-oneness of God, you seem to agree.
Fate worse then hell, huh ?
Folks have you gotten use to what I might call "the Divegeester strut".
"You know you're wrong. You know I am right. You are just too emotional to admit it. I've thoroughly refutted you and you know it, Vanity holds you back from admitting the obvious. etc. etc. etc. etc"
"The Divegeester strut!"
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@secondson saidActually the point was that the following describes you in general - it wasn't thread specific. You just lack the humility to see it. You're in denial.
Just as you misinterpret the meaning and intent of scripture, you have misjudged me with regard to the content of the various posts in the context of this debate.
Follow the thread.
You and FMF just can't handle clear, concise and to the point posts. You simply don't have the intellectual fortitude or honesty for objective rational discourse for it.
What you do have in abundance is a bigoted bias against persons, and a wholly shameful disdain for anyone that disagrees with the unsubstantiated nonsense you plaster this forum with.
The description really does fit you to a T.
Seriously: Set aside your pride and look in the mirror.
@thinkofone saidYou say that a lot to different people. Shame you don't actually back up your
Actually the point was that the following describes you in general - it wasn't thread specific. You just lack the humility to see it. You're in denial.
[quote]You and FMF just can't handle clear, concise and to the point posts. You simply don't have the intellectual fortitude or honesty for objective rational discourse for it.
What you do have in abundance is a bigote ...[text shortened]... description really does fit you to a T.
Seriously: Set aside your pride and look in the mirror.
beliefs with answers to questions.
@sonship saidJesus Christ position in God is eternal, among us who are now among His family
@divegeester
Anyone reading this thread, and I doubt there is anyone, knows what you wrote. The simple fact sonship is that you are wrong.
“On this day I BECAME your father”
Read it and let it sink into that stubborn dogmatic closed mind of yours.
Strictly speaking it says "You are My Son. This day I have begotten You." (Hebrews 1:5) ...[text shortened]... hat is TRUE for God then it is true for the Son regardless of what day the Father says He begot Him.
He has the position of first born, it is one of rights. I agree with You while Jesus
took on our life His titles were altered changed in a time since because we have
not always been around so He could not be eternally many things that relate to
us eternally. Being the only begotten was always true, first born could only occur
when there were others. Unlike our lives we were made, He begotten eternally so
that through Him all things that were made were made through Him.
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I can’t imagine what those portions would be as I don’t agree with anything about the trinity, I believe in the oneness of God.
You're vague. You never spell out specifically what you regard as a single explanation of the trinity you reject. This is nebulous and vague but safe for you to hide behind vague generalities.
I have yet to see you outline what you think is the doctrine of the Trinity.
For some interested I have presented some chapter outlines in publications which succinctly give overviews of what we in the local churches believe are balanced and thorough explanation of the teaching of the Trinity.
Here is an outline of one presentation of the Trinity in a book entitled -
Modalism, Tritheism, or the Pure Revelation of the Triune God by Ron Kangus written in November of 1976.
MODALISM
Some Definitions
The Modalistic Concept of the Trinity
A Brief History of Modalism
TRITHEISM
AN ATTEMPT TO AVOID THE EXTREMES OF MODALISM AND TRITHEISM
THE PURE WORD OF GOD
THE PURE REVELATION OF THE TRIUNE GOD ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE
One Unique God
The Three Persons of the Godhead
All Three Being God and Being Eternal
The Simultaneous Existence of the Father, Son, and Spirit
The Three Being One
The Son Being Called the Father
Christ, the Son, Being the Spirit
GOD’S INTENTION IN REVEALING HIMSELF AS THE UNIQUE TRIUNE GOD
FOOTNOTES
Here's another outline to a book called The Revelation of the Triune God According to the Pure Word of the Bible by Witness Lee, written January 1976.
I. GOD IS UNIQUELY ONE
II. GOD IS TRIUNE
A. “I” Is “Us”
B. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
C. All Three Are God
1. The Father Is God
2. The Son Is God
3. The Spirit Is God
D. All Three Are Eternal
1. The Father Is Eternal
2. The Son Is Eternal
3. The Spirit Is Eternal
E. All Three Exist at the Same Time
F. All Three Are One
1. The Son Is the Father
2. The Son and the Father Are One
3. The Last Adam Became a Life-giving Spirit
4. The Lord (the Son) Is the Spirit
G. All Three Are in Us
III. A MYSTERY
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The trinity smacks of paganism to me, however unlike you, I don’t believe it is a salvation issue.
Firstly, being lazy you don't study to see exactly what some Christians mean by a revelation of the Trinity. It is easy to give a VAGUE "O, I don't like the sound of that - paganism." wave off.
You don't bother to review an outline of points which undergird a belief in God's three-oneness. [/quote]
Everything of God is found in Jesus Christ; deity, authority, Kingship, Godhead, salvation, healing, friendship, everything.
So you are merely saying what my belief in the Trinity ALSO says - quoting as I did extensively Colossians chapter one. All the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in him.
You're not telling me something I have not already explained.
None of that dissipates when the role of the son is finished, it will be the exact same person, he just won’t be in the role/office/manifesting of “son” anymore. He will be the almighty God.
He will be the almighty God, you say. Well He IS already the Almighty God.
Do you mean Christ is not NOW the Almighty God but only WILL BE in the future ? In His resurrection He was already God - "My Lord and my God" exclaimed Thomas.
And in the letters to the seven churches Christ is the Almighty coming on the clouds in His second coming.
Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, those also who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail over Him. Yes, amen.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is, and who was, and who is coming, THE ALMIGHTY." (Rev. 1:7,8)
Why do you put off Christ being the Almighty God until a future time after He delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father (1 Cor. 15:24) ?
Isn't Jesus Christ your God Almighty TODAY ?
@sonship saidThe same yesterday, today, and forever!
The trinity smacks of paganism to me, however unlike you, I don’t believe it is a salvation issue.
Firstly, being lazy you don't study to see exactly what some Christians mean by a revelation of the Trinity. It is easy to give a VAGUE "O, I don't like the sound of that - paganism." wave off.
You don't bother to review an outline of points which ...[text shortened]... ingdom to His God and Father (1 Cor. 15:24) ?
Isn't Jesus Christ your God Almighty TODAY ?
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Everything of God is found in Jesus Christ; deity, authority, Kingship, Godhead, salvation, healing, friendship, everything. None of that dissipates when the role of the son is finished, it will be the exact same person, he just won’t be in the role/office/manifesting of “son” anymore. He will be the almighty God.
Where do you find words in the Bible approaching or stating "the role of the son is finished" ?
Kelly just pointed out to you "Jesus Christ the same .yesterday, today, FOREVER".
How do you mean He is the exact same person yet the role of the Son is over ?
Then He is not the exact same person if the Christ's role of the Son of God is over.
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It bears repeating that the kingdom that the Son delivers up to the Father is the Father's ALREADY. It is not as if He is delivering up something to the Father that the Father was not the possessor of anyway.
" The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness.
And will cast them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father; He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt. 13:41-43)
The role of the Son is not expired either during "the kingdom of their Father" or after the conclusion of the millennial period, when the kingdom of their Father is delivered up to His Father.