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Your claimed inability to understand my simple premise on this matter is either deliberate obfuscation or a worrying cognitive limitation.
I am not sure you yourself understand your "simple premise".
Elaborate and see if you can demonstrate YOU YOURSELF understand what you're saying.
Are you saying that of the TEN points above this paragraph has NO effect ?
3) the concept of an “eternal son” and an eternal father” is flawed even in the most basic of reasoning and also in scripture.
Firstly in logic, how can a son be equally eternal with his father when clearly a father comes before a son?
Secondly there is is this important scripture in psalms:
“I will proclaim the LORD's decree: He said to me, "You are my son; today I have become your father.
If the son was begotten of his father and it happened on a day call “today”, then how can that relationship as father and son be eternal?
Which of the TEN points from Colossians is an "office" NO LONGER the Son's in eternity future ?
Divegeester,
Of the ten points or "offices" indicated in Colossians 1:15-18 is there NONE that are terminated by your analysis below?
The purpose of the office of the son is not eternal, there is no “eternal son” mentioned in the Bible. The office of the son shall hand over all things to the office of the Father, as it says in scripture. The office of the son shall no longer exist but Jesus will forever be the visible physical expression of God the father. His avatar if you like (although I don’t really like that much myself).
Which one of the ten "offices" is not to be the Son's in eternity because of what you explain in the paragraph above ?
Help me to understand rather than accuse me of deliberately not doing so.
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Divegeeester,
This you explain - [my bolding]
The purpose of the office of the son is not eternal, there is no “eternal son” mentioned in the Bible. The office of the son shall hand over all things to the office of the Father, as it says in scripture. The office of the son shall no longer exist but Jesus will forever be the visible physical expression of God the father.
How does this CAUSE in eternity which of these matters to NO LONGER be an office of the Son of God ?
[Christ] "Who is the image of the invisible God, Firstborn of all creation, (v15)
Because in Him were all things created in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through HIm and unto Him; (v.16)
And He is before all things, and all things subsist together in Him; (v.17)
And He is the Head of the body the church; who is the beginning, Firstborn from among the dead, that He might have the first place in all things.
For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell. " (vs. 18-19)
And if NONE, then what do you mean ?
@fmf saidYou dodged the content of my post. You're still dodging.
I am not dodging the torturer god ideology at all. I've been tackling it head on for years. But here you are using an atheist as a proxy to express your disagreement with the ideology's proponents. If there's any dodging going on, it's yours. I am not going to defend the torturer god ideology. You are disagreeing about it and debating with the wrong poster.
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-Removed-I don't hear you replying to my post either. All I hear is you dodging with your dodge buddy.
You and FMF just can't handle clear, concise and to the point posts. You simply don't have the intellectual fortitude or honesty for objective rational discourse for it.
What you do have in abundance is a bigoted bias against persons, and a wholly shameful disdain for anyone that disagrees with the unsubstantiated nonsense you plaster this forum with.
Neither one of you is worth the time of day debating with.
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Yes, Christ is the firstborn, born to Almighty God who "became" his father on a certain day.
Just tell me. Do you understand the difference between these two titles ?
Firstborn of all creation (Col. 1:15) and Firstborn from among the dead (Col. 1:18) ?
There is no shame if you do not know the difference.
His 'sonship' had a beginning.
Second question. And it is a question.
Do you know WHERE in the New Testament the word "sonship" is even applied to Christ, the Son of God ?
KIng James Version translates the word as adoption.
Where is that verse applying sonship or adoption to Jesus Christ ?
What has a beginning cannot, by definition, be eternal
Do you understand that Jesus Christ has TWO natures ?
It's really not difficult sonship
Just answer the questions above.
1.) Do you understand the difference between Firstborn of all creation (Col. 1:15) and Firstborn from among the dead (Col. 1:18) ?
2.) Do you know WHERE in the New Testament the word "sonship" is even applied to the Son of God ?
3.) Do you understand that Jesus Christ has TWO natures ?
Pretend for a moment that it is not me - sonship the poster asking you.
Pretend for a moment that it is somebody else with whom you have no real strong disagreements.
Divegeester, I am not trying to humiliate you or embassess you.
Can you give three substantial answers to the questions above ?
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None of this is relevant sonship. I’ve completely debunked your claim that there is eternal son using simple scriptures.
If you feel that you have successfully proved that there is no eternal Son of God, then why can't you answer the three questions ?
I mean if I've been debunked, then you have nothing to loss by answering those questions.
I'll have to assume that you don't know what to write as answers.
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I’ll answer your three questions if you promise to answer my three...agreed?
Agreed.
But past experience informs me that answers you do not like you count as not answers.
So I agree. I do not guarantee you'll admit that you have been ANSWERED.
And I hope they are three questions RELATED of The eternal Son of God of the OP and not to something else.
My three to you again:
1.) Do you understand the difference between Firstborn of all creation (Col. 1:15) and Firstborn from among the dead (Col. 1:18) ?
2.) Do you know WHERE in the New Testament the word "sonship" is even applied to the Son of God ?
3.) Do you understand that Jesus Christ has TWO natures ?
Your answers?