1. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 17:56
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    if this was proved either way, then what would be big changes to earth.

    you know, for some Christians i guess they would have serious problems with their faith if it was disproved. even though it's good that they would see where their faith was wrong, it could have tragic results.

    at the same time, it would be very hard for evolutionist if it was prov ...[text shortened]... e people's entire lifes work would sink into the toilet.

    suicides would be a possibility?
    Faith cannot be proved "wrong".

    -JC
  2. Joined
    28 Aug '05
    Moves
    1355
    10 Jun '06 18:06
    Originally posted by Churlant
    Faith cannot be proved "wrong".

    -JC
    That's its strength, unfortuanately
  3. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Jun '06 18:12
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    if this was proved either way, then what would be big changes to earth.

    you know, for some Christians i guess they would have serious problems with their faith if it was disproved. even though it's good that they would see where their faith was wrong, it could have tragic results.

    at the same time, it would be very hard for evolutionist if it was prov ...[text shortened]... e people's entire lifes work would sink into the toilet.

    suicides would be a possibility?
    It wouldn't just be hard for evolutionary biologists. In order for us to "discover" that all the data we have collected for hundreds of years actually supports the hypothesis that a cataclysmic (continent altering) global flood occured about 4,000-4,500 years ago, a vast portion of our understanding of geology, physics, chemistry, biology, anthropology, and engineering would have to be completely changed.

    Evolutionary biologists would probably be far less affected than geologists and physicists.
  4. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 18:12
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    well, for those who believe in noah's ark, they may consider it part of their faith. in their foolishness they may give up their faith in God.

    you think about people who have spent their lives preaching about it. they would have been lying all that time to their congregation. it does have serious consequences, either way as it only takes one little lapse in life for suicide to happen.
    You can't disprove Noah's Ark. You can't disprove the Flood.

    You can stop or start believing in both, but you can't prove they didn't happen.

    -JC
  5. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Jun '06 18:22
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    well, for those who believe in noah's ark, they may consider it part of their faith. in their foolishness they may give up their faith in God.

    you think about people who have spent their lives preaching about it. they would have been lying all that time to their congregation. it does have serious consequences, either way as it only takes one little lapse in life for suicide to happen.
    It might be hard, but it's no cause to kill yourself over.
  6. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Jun '06 18:40
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    why do you believe that?
    Again Supernatural Omniscient Omnipotent Manipulators trump all natural evidence.

    Even apparent logical inconsistencies can be "reinterpreted" to smooth away contradictions.

    It's really all a matter of your BS tolerance.
  7. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 18:44
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    why do you believe that?
    i'm interested in if you believe the flood happened?
    I believe you can't disprove the Flood because you can't prove a negative.

    Noah's Ark - if you find it, it existed. If you don't find it, you can't "prove" it didn't exist, all you can say is you didn't find it.

    No I do not believe the flood happened. I do believe that there was intense flooding in many areas due to natural disaster which served as a foundation for the Flood myth.

    -JC
  8. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 19:08
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    so you are saying the bible isn't true?

    you can prove a negative. if i say i've got a broken leg and i lie. then 4500 years down the track it is 'possible' to prove i lied. we are not looking for a broken leg... it's like a WORLD-WIDE FLOOD!
    You can prove some negatives - not all of them. We return to faith again.

    Yes, I'm saying the Bible is not literal truth.

    -JC
  9. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 19:19
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    seven meters above the highest mountain is NOT referring to large flooding. so for someone who believes in the Bible you would KNOW that those floods has no relevance. it is black or white.

    come on, if it's possible to prove i lie about a broken leg 4500 years down the track, then it should be easy to prove the whole earth got annihilated.
    I could provide you with a link to the definition of "allegory" if you wish. Just because a fiction has detail doesn't make it complete.

    You "leg" analogy is also incomplete, unless you really believe you can honestly compare your broken leg to an act of God, in which case I commend your own faith.

    -JC
  10. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Jun '06 19:22
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    so you are saying the bible isn't true?

    you can prove a negative. if i say i've got a broken leg and i lie. then 4500 years down the track it is 'possible' to prove i lied. we are not looking for a broken leg... it's like a WORLD-WIDE FLOOD!
    Exactly, which is why we're pretty doggon sure it didn't happen.

    For it to have happened (without a divine cover up) all sorts of physical laws would have had to have changed radically. Essentially, we wouldn't be able to trust anything we uncovered in the world.

    If you really want to know why nearly all scientists and an overwhelming majority of educated people do not believe in a literal 4500 year old flood, I'd recommend talkorigins and iidb.org. You'll certainly get that side of things there.
  11. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 19:27
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    my leg example is good cause in comparison to a world-wide flood, as it is like trying to find if a needle exists in your kitchen compared to finding if a haystack exists in there.
    Your leg example is invalid because your leg is not an omnipotent, supernatural entity billed as creator of all existence.

    -JC
  12. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Jun '06 19:27
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    seven meters above the highest mountain is NOT referring to large flooding. so for someone who believes in the Bible you would KNOW that those floods has no relevance. it is black or white.

    come on, if it's possible to prove i lie about a broken leg 4500 years down the track, then it should be easy to prove if the whole earth did/didn't get annihilated 4500 years ago. this is science, not faith.
    The problem is that if one points out all the physical evidence which is incompatible with the flood (or even more importantly all of the physical evidence which does not exist but should if a global flood occured), the creationists can always simply dismiss the evidence. Many of these people will tell you that radiometric dating is wrong because it does not yield a young earth. Some will tell you that the speed of light has rapidly decreased to account for the distance of space objects from us. They'll even attack the idea that physical laws do not change so long as it gets them out of a corner.

    If you are really interested in deciding the matter for yourself one way or another check out some of the sites I've recommended. You'll see that the scientific position is clear. Then you can accept it or reject it as you see fit.
  13. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 19:36
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    my example had very little to do with God.
    Exactly. By contrast, the Flood has everything to do with God. This is your problem in a nutshell.

    -JC
  14. Standard memberChurlant
    Ego-Trip in Progress
    Phoenix, AZ
    Joined
    05 Jan '06
    Moves
    8915
    10 Jun '06 20:18
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    yep, i'm interested to have a read of the link.

    it has nothing to do with God what science could prove to me. i've never seen simple scientific answers as yet. you don't prove/disprove something to me through psychological aspects.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allegory

    Science can't prove God, nor can it prove what God has done. Your error is in expecting this to be the case.

    -JC
  15. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
    Joined
    11 Sep '04
    Moves
    7707
    10 Jun '06 20:26
    Originally posted by 7ate9
    seven meters above the highest mountain is NOT referring to large flooding. so for someone who believes in the Bible you would KNOW that those floods has no relevance. it is black or white.

    come on, if it's possible to prove i lie about a broken leg 4500 years down the track, then it should be easy to prove if the whole earth did/didn't get annihilated 4500 years ago. this is science, not faith.
    read this:
    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:NlW6zLf4U9wJ:www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Seely.pdf+proof+of+no+flood&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9
Back to Top