Respondng to RJHinds above -
The Gap Theory has been defeated.
Strut around as much as you like.
I think plenty of readers of this thread can see you did a poor job to prove the Gap as untenable.
So let's see your victory dance here.
How Genesis 13 undermines the ‘gap theory’
The gap theory has come in different forms since its conception in the early 1800s. It was a response to the long geological ages that were coming to the forefront, from a naturalistic worldview of the earth’s geological history, in the late 1700s.
I am chiefly interested in how the interval explains the ancient history of the enemy of God. My main interest is in the Bible's revelation.
Only secondarily do I find confirmations or possible confirmations in the natural world to be in harmony with an old earth.
The truth is that Genesis is the book of beginnings, with God the originator of all things.
Sure it is. However, not everything about beginnings HAS to be told us in one place. No slamdunk there.
So we should not pander to a wholly materialistic explanation of things by trying to fit it into the Bible and coming up with ideas like the gap theory.
Hypocritical to the extreme. This YEC guy incessantly beats a materialistic collection of "evidences" to try to prove a 6,000 or so year old universe. Consistently Hinds spends much more space and time to these material issues then he does to actual exergesis of the Bible.
Just go through the pages and examine the titles of the many threads he has started.
In his profile, I could not even see where he confesses to be a Christian. He seems to want only to inform you of what he is against. He says he goes to Spirituality Forum and he does not believe in Evolution. Its pretty clear that Hinds wants to define himself to the website in terms of what he DOES NOT believe.
This is a kind of "Come Fight With Me" invitation. And I think most of his fighting is about material evidences for a recent creation of the universe. And he has the audacity to point out material arguments at this point in his exchanges with me - who has overwhelmingly based my reasoning on the text of the Bible.
A major problem for the gap theory—and all long-age compromises—is that all such views place the fossil record before Adam.
Maybe, maybe not. I can wait on fossil theories to be formulated. Did I argue about fossils in this discussion? No.
I argued from the text of the Bible.
The major problem of Hinds' attack on the Destruction / Reconstruction understanding and an interval between verse 1 and 2 is a lot of ad hoc, "maybe this plausible objection or maybe that plausible objection" could be raised.
Mostly, what we got from RJHinds was exploitation of any possible little whole he could make in a very sound presentation on many points that I provided.
I guess feeling these to be inadequate he goes back to his forte - material issues gleaned from YEC websites in thier discussions of various science interpretations.
Some of these are from an attitude that it is impossible for an unbeliever to know more about the physical world than a YEC Christian.
I still wonder WHY RJHinds is not out there fighting for an earth that cannot be MOVED according to other Bible passages that could be taken as supportive of a Geocentric solarsystem of Ptolemy.
In addition to being an Young Earther I don't know why RJHinds is not a Still Earther arguing that Ptolemy's science is more biblical than that of Copernicus.
If science causes Christians to have to go back to the Bible to more closely examine what is really said there, that is no tragedy.
And we are not told
when the beginning was in which time and space, matter and energy, were CREATED.
We are told that the seer communicating to us Genesis chapter one viewed the earth as waste and empty, arguably because of some divine overthrow of which we are not at that moment informed.
Sorry Hinds. No conclusive defeat here.
But this fossil record shows death and suffering. However, death is the result of Adam’s Fall, but the long-age views would entail that death precedes the Fall.
Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, says the Apostle Paul. But there must be some parameters on what
" the world " was.
Lucifer SINNED in SOME world with some Eden which apparently was not the Eden described in Genesis one. So says
Ezekiel 28.
And every attempt that Hinds has made to shoe horn that sinning and fall to being AFTER Genesis 3 is far less logical. So he argues that the deception Eve must have been the beginning Satan's sinning. Frankly, this has been demonstrated as a weak view of the history of the Devil.
If the angels witnessed a inferior human being being the first to be hoodwinked by Satan, they should have realized that any FURTHER promises of well being to THEM TOO to follow this being were just as likely to be failures.
They saw Adam and Eve begin to die for their disobedience to God in favor of following Satan. A far more logical view is that other beings had already had the bitter lesson that it was a disaster to rebel against the Creator. It was just that for them it was TOO LATE by who knows how many eons.
The Bible, its authors and Jesus himself were very clear on how they viewed Creation and the Fall, and the importance of these doctrines in the showing the need for the historical, vicarious death of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay the price for sin.
Absolutely nothing about the Gap as I have presented it does the slightest damage to the meaning of Christ's redemption. And I think I can present a more effective Gospel message to unbelievers than RJHinds can.
He insists that no possible sin or death before Adam in ANY world makes his presentation of the New Testament salvation mean more. But that has never been demonstrated to me in the years I have been reading his posts here.
Face it RJHinds, Your YEC dogma does nothing to make the Gospel more effective. And my teaching of Satan's pre-adamic fall has not reduced the power of my gospel presentation at all.
On the contrary. Your fancy footwork to make Eve the first casualty of any created being by Satan so obscures his past that the what the Bible has taken the veil away from you labor to quickly re-instate. The deeper meaning of salvation in Christ to express God's image and exercise His dominion is obscured because the invisible war is obscured.
This is a Gospel issue, because Jesus came to conquer the death that came to the human race through the sin of Adam; the death which came as a direct result of his fall,
Nothing i have written here for many years, negates that.
I affirm it better than RJHinds does.
His main subject in fact is that no Evilution took place because there was not enough time. By far the number of threads started by RJHinds are about fighting for a recent age of all the universe much more so than a message about Christ's redemption.
Examine the last 40 thread titles started by RJHinds in the last years. It seems the unforgivable sin is believing in Evilution with its long ages. He presents really "The Gospel of a Young Universe".
which was passed onto us all, the death which was not in God’s very good universe (Romans 5:12, Genesis 1:31)
The Gap Theory is defeated.
Here's another booboo. In a creation which God pronounced on the sixth day as
"very good" the serpent seems to have existed who lied to Eve.
He doesn't explain this as far as I know. Perhaps he argues that the fall of Lucifer occured sometime after that sixth day. But that makes very little sense.
The reason is that it calls for God establishing TWO deputy authorities of great authority at one time. This is CONFUSION. This is arbitrary and chaotic.
It is apparent that ONE deputy authority rebelled and failed. And God replaced that with a new one - man. What was
"very good" was only so as man remained obedient to God as that deputy authority.
The fall is that Adam ceded it to an ancient enemy of God who had long before been rejected. And this one was too suppose to be UNDER Adam's authority rather than listened to to the detriment of the whole order that God had established.
No slamdunk victory for the "debunking" of the ancient pre-adamic fall of the anointed cherub, Lucifer in this post.