The God Delusion

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hi Tel!

I hope you realise that Mathematics and Philosophy are different fields of study. I was actully making my comment within a philosophical framework. 😉

Would you care to demonstrate why it would be philosophically tenable to make an absolute negation?

What about the statement: No bachelors are married.

That is a negation that follows necessarily from the definition of 'bachelor.' We don't need absolute knowledge to make that statement.

Originally posted by dj2becker
If there was no God, there would be no such a thing as an atheist.

Lies depend upon the truth.

Originally posted by rwingett
What about the statement: No bachelors are married.

That is a negation that follows necessarily from the definition of 'bachelor.' We don't need absolute knowledge to make that statement.

What about the statement: No bachelors are married.
That is a negation that follows necessarily from the definition of 'bachelor.' We don't need absolute knowledge to make that statement.

All you are doing there is saying what the definition implies.

Would you care to demonstrate how the statement: "God does not exist", follows necessarily from the definition of "God"?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]What about the statement: No bachelors are married.
That is a negation that follows necessarily from the definition of 'bachelor.' We don't need absolute knowledge to make that statement.

All you are doing there is saying what the definition implies.

Would you care to demonstrate how the statement: "God does not exist", follows necessarily from the definition of "God"?[/b]

1. God is defined as being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

2. The demonstrable presence of much natural evil in the world is incompatible with this definition.

3. Therefore, a god so defined is a logical contradiction which cannot exist.



That is an argument that strong atheists typically use to back up their claim 'god does not exist.' Whether that claim is entirely justified, or strategically wise, is another matter.

Originally posted by rwingett
1. God is defined as being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

2. The demonstrable presence of much natural evil in the world is incompatible with this definition.

3. Therefore, a god so defined is a logical contradiction which cannot exist.



That is an argument that strong atheists typically use to back up their claim 'god does not exist.' Whether that claim is entirely justified, or strategically wise, is another matter.

Are you rehearsing for a series of public lectures? You've got this stuff down pat.

Originally posted by rwingett
1. God is defined as being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

2. The demonstrable presence of much natural evil in the world is incompatible with this definition.

3. Therefore, a god so defined is a logical contradiction which cannot exist.



That is an argument that strong atheists typically use to back up their claim 'god does not exist.' Whether that claim is entirely justified, or strategically wise, is another matter.

Would you care to demonstrate how the presence of much natural evil in the world is incompatible with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God?

And another question, as the second premise assumes the existence of 'evil', would you care to demonstrate how an atheist differentiates between 'good' and 'evil'?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Are you rehearsing for a series of public lectures? You've got this stuff down pat.

Almost. I've been listening to a series of lectures on the topic.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Would you care to demonstrate how the presence of much natural evil in the world is incompatible with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God?

And another question, as the second premise assumes the existence of 'evil', would you care to demonstrate how an atheist differentiates between 'good' and 'evil'?

The Problem of Evil has been dealt with so extensively in this forum that I see no need to rehash it all yet again. If you honestly still don't have a grasp of the problem, then I doubt there's anything I can do for you. You can read up on it at Wikipedia if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Originally posted by rwingett
The Problem of Evil has been dealt with so extensively in this forum that I see no need to rehash it all yet again. If you honestly still don't have a grasp of the problem, then I doubt there's anything I can do for you. You can read up on it at Wikipedia if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

I have extensively dealt with the Problem of Evil in one of the other threads. You did not respond to anything I said. Let me quote it for you:

""If God is to both preserve freedom and defeat evil, then this is the best way to do it. Freedom is preserved in that each person makes his own free choice to determine his destiny. Evil is overcome in that, once those who reject God are separated from the others, the decisions of all are made permanent. Those who reject God are in eternal quarantine and cannot upset the perfect world that has to come about. The ultimate goal of a perfect world with free creatures will have been achieved, but the way to get there requires that those who abuse their freedom be cast out." (Geisler and Brooks, When Skeptics Ask, 73)

In view of the facts, the existence of evil in the world is seen to be compatible with the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. God.

1. If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent., he will defeat evil.
2. If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent., he can defeat evil.
3. An omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. God does not need to defeat evil immediately.
4. Evil is not yet defeated.
5. Therefore, God can and will one day defeat evil sometime in the future.

One day in the future, Christ will return, strip away power from the wicked, and hold all men and women accountable for the things they did during their time on earth (see Matthew 25:31-46; Revelation 20:11-15). Justice will ultimately prevail. Those who enter without having trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation will understand just how effectively God has dealt with the problem of evil.

Even though God’s ultimate solution to the problem of evil awaits the future, God has even now taken steps to ensure that evil doesn't run amok. Indeed, God has given us human government to withstand lawlessness (see Romans 13:1-7). God founded the church to be a light in the midst of the darkness, to strengthen God's people, and even to help restrain the growth of wickedness in the world through the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g., Acts 16:5; 1 Timothy 3:15). In his Word God has given us a moral standard to guide us and keep us on the right path. (See Psalm 119). He has given us the family unit to bring stability to society, (e.g. Proverbs 22:15; 23:13)."

Originally posted by rwingett
The Problem of Evil has been dealt with so extensively in this forum that I see no need to rehash it all yet again. If you honestly still don't have a grasp of the problem, then I doubt there's anything I can do for you. You can read up on it at Wikipedia if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

The problem of Evil is easily dealt with from the Christian perspective.

Now my question to you is, how do you as an Atheist deal with the problem of Evil?

Where did evil come from? How do you differentiate between 'good' and 'evil' in the first place?

In order to be able to correctly differentiate between 'good' and 'evil' you need an absolute point of reference. The only absolute point of reference for anything that is absolutely good is found in the character of God.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The problem of Evil is easily dealt with from the Christian perspective.

Now my question to you is, how do you as an Atheist deal with the problem of Evil?

Where did evil come from? How do you differentiate between 'good' and 'evil' in the first place?

In order to be able to correctly differentiate between 'good' and 'evil' you need an absolute p ...[text shortened]... oint of reference for anything that is absolutely good is found in the character of God.

Stop changing the subject to avoid confronting the issue at hand.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The problem of Evil is easily dealt with from the Christian perspective.

Now my question to you is, how do you as an Atheist deal with the problem of Evil?

Where did evil come from? How do you differentiate between 'good' and 'evil'?

I think the Problem of Evil is a very persuasive piece of evidence. I know there are many theodicies that try to explain how the presence of evil in the world may be compatible with the presence of god. I think the answers are generally inadequate, but in the end I don't think anything can be 'proven' either way. Which is why I am not a strong atheist.

I have no intention of being dragged into yet another interminable squabble over the POE.

Originally posted by rwingett
This is the new book by Richard Dawkins. Looks like it's going to be a good one.

From the blurb:

[i]While Europe is becoming increasingly secularised, the rise of religious fundamentalism, whether in the Middle East of Middle America, is dramatically and dangerously dividing opinion around the world.

In America and elsewhere, a vigorous dispute be ...[text shortened]... sm' thread. Namely, Noah and the great flood.

So who's going to rush out and buy it?

Not me.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hi Tel!

I hope you realise that Mathematics and Philosophy are different fields of study. I was actully making my comment within a philosophical framework. 😉

Would you care to demonstrate why it would be philosophically tenable to make an absolute negation?

You are possibly the most ignorant person on this site. You should supplement your Sunday School learning with additional education.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
You are possibly the most ignorant person on this site. You should supplement your Sunday School learning with additional education.

Yep. That sure answered his question. When in doubt, abuse.