What's the moral purpose and justification for 'torture in burning flames for eternity' being the punishment?
You have asked this of me in the past.
I have answered it in the past (probably in more than one post).
I don't feel to repeat the cycle of replies and objections with the same debater.
Vengeance, Retribution. Punishment on this side of etenity is remedial to correct the character of the one disciplined.
Eternal punishment must be vengeance, retribution, reaction to perpetual sinning, confinement to keep the cantagion of the revolt.
You as an atheist say you lack belief in God.
Let's say that God lacks a belief that perpetual un-redeemable revolt should not be perpetually responded to.
I asked posters to show from the bible that death has to mean non-existence. No one could as far as I remember.
If death is not non-existence, then how do I know that non-existence cannot mean sinning forever ?
So my thought is that something of a law of eternal reaction will take place. Forever God will let the lost know what He thinks about their continued sinning.
How do you know that your hostility towards God will not exist once you pass into that realm beyond physical life?
What you hope may not be what happens.
So it is better to take Christ's word for it. In the realm of things like this He demonstrates that He has authority to inform.
The good news is that before we were born God already made provision for the danger in the redemptive work of the Son of God for the world.
You will not doubt argue something like this - "But I am not hostile to something I don't believe exists. Actually, it means nothing to me one way or the other. I lack any belief or concern. I don't like you to threaten me so. And it is all old hat stuff which I use to believe anyway, and have discarded."
And I will say you are probably mistaking yourself for the person you want to be. Self deceived in one or more than one way.
@sonship saidYou are lying. The removed post was a set of four convoluted assertions about the relationship between love and punishment. It sounded totally daft. Hence my reply. There was no reference to any verse. You are lying.
@FMFsonship, you removed your post after it had already been replied to?
Ghost quoted First John 4:8. I mistook it for another verse.
I referenced the WRONG verse. So I removed the misdirected reply.
@sonship saidWhy torture?
Vengeance, Retribution. Punishment on this side of etenity is remedial to correct the character of the one disciplined.
Eternal punishment must be vengeance, retribution, reaction to perpetual sinning, confinement to keep the cantagion of the revolt.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidTo tell you the truth I don’t think that can be known until the truth is completely known. Until God is revealed as well as all the secrets of man are exposed and shown how we and God has acted. Until then it will always be speculation. From my exposure to man and God I trust He will do all things well. I believe we will all acknowledge He does all things as they should be done, and for those with evil in their lives that should be frightening.
Answer me clearly Kelly. Why wouldn't such a God merely obliterate sinners out of existence? Why the need to torment them for all eternity?
@sonship saidIs this some kind of rant?
You as an atheist say you lack belief in God.
Let's say that God lacks a belief that perpetual un-redeemable revolt should not be perpetually responded to.
I asked posters to show from the bible that death has to mean non-existence. No one could as far as I remember.
If death is not non-existence, then how do I know that non-existence cannot mean sinning forev ...[text shortened]... robably mistaking yourself for the person you want to be. Self deceived in one or more than one way.
It's sheer nonsense.
Is this supposed to be a 'moral argument'?
It just sounds like "It is because it is" but as a rant.
Are you angry?
You are truly a sick and evil man.
I brought myself, by His mercy, to the Savior Jesus. He is the Great Physician.
Watchman Nee said something interesting to me. He said that there is a sin against God's holiness and a sin against God's authority. The latter, he said, was more serious.
A sin against the holiness of God, for what it is worth, Nee said is more easily forgiven by God. But to sin against the authority of God is to oppose His throne. It can be forgiven.
The price of rejecting God's authority is too serious. Amalek God said He would have war against forever because Amalek Moses told us was "a hand against the throne".
- more serious then sin against the clean holiness of God. This is a revolt against the Most High, the authority of the One who is the ground of all being, God the King.
The King emptied Himself and came and died as a man on the cross and rose. That plan of salvation was so that the sick and evil and the rebel may be saved.
Now for you Rajk999, YOU remember that every CARELESS WORD which men speak they will give an account of on the day of their judgment. If I were you I would spend some time to bring every careless word you utter under the blood of Jesus.
I would do it every time, and as soon as I am aware that I have spoken rashly out of passion.
@sonship saidThis isn't a 'moral argument'. This is just a kind of 'It's going to happen because it's going to happen' assertion. Or 'Christ is going to torture you because Christ is going to torture you' "argument".
ou hope may not be what happens.
So it is better to take Christ's word for it. In the realm of things like this He demonstrates that He has authority to inform.
@FMF
Answer the question.
Do you know that after physical death your hostility towards God will be non-existent ?
Do you KNOW that for a certain fact ? [edited]
This isn't a 'moral argument'. This is just a kind of 'It's going to happen because it's going to happen' assertion. Or 'Christ is going to torture you because Christ is going to torture you' "argument".
I didn't say it is going to happen because it is going to happen.
I said because of vengeance and retribution and perpetual reaction to endless continued sinning.
Preemptively then I asked you do you know for a fact that your hostility towards God and all His nature and His will (by relation) will be non-existent when you die.
You don't know. So it is better, IMO. to take God word for it that you need to be redeemed, justified to avoid eternal punishment.
Say it is "nonsense" at your own peril. I have to carefully consider the Person who said these things.
@sonship saidWhy torture? Morally speaking. Why is torture the punishment?
@FMFThis isn't a 'moral argument'. This is just a kind of 'It's going to happen because it's going to happen' assertion. Or 'Christ is going to torture you because Christ is going to torture you' "argument".
I didn't say it is going to happen because it is going to happen.
I said because of vengeance and retribution and perpetual reaction to endl ...[text shortened]... r, IMO. to take God word for it that you need to be redeemed, justified to avoid eternal punishment.