25 Feb 12
Most presentations of the Gospel are from the standpoint of the need of man. There certainly exists another angle in the Bible. And that is of the need of God. God has a need. Yes or no ?
I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
25 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillI think God needs all the non Christians to become Christian because all Gods want a herd of bouncing heads that walk the straight and narrow.
Most presentations of the Gospel are from the standpoint of the need of man. There certainly exists another angle in the Bible. And that is of the need of God. God has a need. Yes or no ?
I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
God also needs Blood to forgive . What self respecting God does not want Blood ? God needs you to stop with any kind of rational thought also. Because that is the only way to get inside the cult.
25 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillIt's certainly unusual to depict god as 'needing' anything. It would seem to detract from his alleged non-contingency and perfection.
Most presentations of the Gospel are from the standpoint of the need of man. There certainly exists another angle in the Bible. And that is of the need of God. God has a need. Yes or no ?
I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywill"Most presentations of the gospel are from the needs of man"
Most presentations of the Gospel are from the standpoint of the need of man. There certainly exists another angle in the Bible. And that is of the need of God. God has a need. Yes or no ?
I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
This is often the case with something manmade.
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26 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywill... I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
Most presentations of the Gospel are from the standpoint of the need of man. There certainly exists another angle in the Bible. And that is of the need of God. God has a need. Yes or no ?
I will present wonderful evidence of this angle of the Gospel. That God has His need.
Check this out and you might save some effort.
http://www.virtualpreacher.org/sermon-outlines/gods-three-needs/
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by nook7
"Most presentations of the gospel are from the needs of man"
This is often the case with something manmade.
"Most presentations of the gospel are from the needs of man"
This is often the case with something manmade.
If that is your complaint then evidence of Christ and His apostles presenting it from the angle of God's need should be consideration that it is not manmade.
I promised some examples:
Jesus Christ (Luke 14:17) - Come, for all things are now ready." This is the declaration of the God of the universe in the parable of great feast:
"And He said ..., A certain man was making a great dinner and invited man; And he sent his slave at the dinner hour to say to those who had been invited, Come, for all things are now ready."
Many Christians can testify that we first only saw man's need in the Gospel invitation. We saw man's failure and man's need for victory over sin. We saw man's need for power, love, faithfulness, holiness, vigor, and other godly and high human attributes.
Skeptical complaints against the Gospel were also usually focused on the needs of mankind. Of course mankind does have legitimate needs. So this argument is not totally irrevelant.
But some passages show that God's need can be thought of as immensely greater. God likens His salvation to a dinner in Luke 14:16). When someone invites you for dinner, usually they do not say - "I would like you to come to my house for dinner because I am concerned that you have nothing to eat."
Usually we invite people to dinner not thinking of their need so much but of OUR need. Our dinner needs the guest. Our dinner requires our friend's visitation and good appetite.
Employees man refuse to go to work one day.
Students may refuse to go to class one day.
It grieves a host if a person refuses to go to her or his dinner.
The host's dinner needs people to respond to the invitation, to come and enjoy. The primary reason for the invitation is usually the host's need for the enjoyment of his prepared hostpitality and good food.
This is the tone of Christ's parable of the great dinner in Luke 14 - "Come, for all things are now ready."
God is ready. Man is ready. There only needs to be a response of the invited to come. God had prepared a great feast first for the nation of Israel His elect nation. God invites all to come and feast. Jesus shows this side of salvation, - God's need to FILL His dining place with invited guests.
That's enough for this post. But I encourage the reader to read the rest of the passage in Luke 14:15-24 including these words after the invited made various excuses for not coming:
"Then the master of the house became angry and told his slave, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes ofthe city, and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.
And the slave said, Master, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.
And the master said to the slave, God out into the roads and hedges and compel them to come in, so that my house may be filled."
Without a doubt the tone of this teaching of Jesus is the Gospel from the standpoint of God's need that the enjoyment that He has prepared have as many as possible to come. All things are made ready. God NEEDS many to come to His rich "dinner." He needs to dispense His prepared enjoyment to His guests.
We may actually say "Father I come to respond to YOUR need to have those who enjoy your dinner. Lord Jesus I come to respond to YOUR need to have guests to enjoy your rich feast."
26 Feb 12
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillSo you are doing God a favour. Your doctrine is truly arrogant..."Most presentations of the gospel are from the needs of man"
This is often the case with something manmade.
If that is your complaint then evidence of Christ and His apostles presenting it from the angle of God's need should be consideration that it is not manmade.
I promised some examples:
Jesus Christ [b](Luke 14:17) - me to respond to YOUR need to have guests to enjoy your rich feast."[/b]
- Once Saved Always Saved.
- Eternally Saved
- I dont need to do good works
- I have been regenerated
- I have the Holy Spirit
- God cannot take away my salvation .. 'his hands are tied'
- I can sin all I like
These are the teachings of Pharisees.
26 Feb 12
4 edits
Originally posted by rwingett
It's certainly unusual to depict god as 'needing' anything. It would seem to detract from his alleged non-contingency and perfection.
It's certainly unusual to depict god as 'needing' anything. It would seem to detract from his alleged non-contingency and perfection.
I would agree with you. It does "seem" to have that effect. Nevertheless, because I have to take in all of the styles in which Christ presents the Gospel, I should to recognize that this angle exists too.
Three parables of Luke 15:1-32 for examples, show the angle.
The parable of the shepherd seeking a lost sheep (Luke 15:1-7)
The parable of the woman seeking a lost coin (Luke 15:8-10)
The parable of the father receiving back the lost son (Luke 15:11-32)
The concluding words of each parable are insightful:
The shepherd seeking the lost sheep -
"And when he finds it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes into his house, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost." (v.6)
And Jesus adds a little interpretation - "I tell you that in the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner repenting than over niety-nine righteous persons who hasve no need of repentance."
The rejoicing of the shepherd and his invitation for his neighbors to join in that rejoicing really shows Christ's intention that we understand from the divine side. God rejoices that His need is met in the recovery of the lost sinner. His happiness is fulfilled. His heart is relieved. His mind is put at rest at last and His need is met.
The other two examples I will comment on in other posts for length's sake.
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillDesires and needs are not the same thing.It's certainly unusual to depict god as 'needing' anything. It would seem to detract from his alleged non-contingency and perfection.
I would agree with you. It does "seem" to have that effect. Nevertheless, because I have to take in all of the styles in which Christ presents the Gospel, I should to recognize that this angle exists too. ...[text shortened]... met.
The other two examples I will comment on in other posts for length's sake.
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by Rajk999Rajk999, this is somewhat another topic. I am thinking how I can respond and yet steer the response toward the OP. I may not be able to do that.
So you are doing God a favour. Your doctrine is truly arrogant...
- Once Saved Always Saved.
- Eternally Saved
- I dont need to do good works
- I have been regenerated
- I have the Holy Spirit
- God cannot take away my salvation .. 'his hands are tied'
- I can sin all I like
These are the teachings of Pharisees.
So you are doing God a favour. Your doctrine is truly arrogant...
Oh, I am much worse than you could ever imagine. But thankfully, we Christians have a fresh new start every day. And as the Apostle John wrote - If we confess our sins God is righteous and faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
God has a need that Christ be expressed through me. That is His need to conform many brothers to the image of the Firstborn Son (Rom. 8:28,29)
Now let's see how fair your criticisms are really:
- Once Saved Always Saved.
'Saved" has a number of different connatations in the Bible. Of course not ALL usages of the word "saved" would mean necessarily that a man only needed it ONCE and never again.
Further debate about this will have to be on another thread. (If I choose to go over this again with you).
- Eternally Saved
sigh. The subject HERE is "God's Need". How can I tie this into that subject?
In the parable of the father seeking the lost son, once the son is returned home it is a permanent recovery. The rejoicing father tells the other disgrountled older brother:
"But we had to be merry and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life, and he was lost and has been found." ( Luke 15:32)
The fatted calf was slain for the returning son. This signifies must point to the Redeemer who was slain for the son's feasting. It was a specific calf that was particularly prepared for the occasion as Christ was the Savior Lamb of God specfically prepared for the salvation of the lost:
"And bring the fattened calf; slaughter it, and let us eat and be merry, Because this son of mine was dead and lives again; he was lost and has been found. And they began to be merry." (v.22,23)
The lost son, the dead son is found and alive again! This has a permanent sound to it. Yes, once found FOUND forever. Once dead, now alive again forever.
Are you the disgruntled brother ? Are you unhappy that the lost son was found? Are you unhappy that you have been in the field working and all this rejoicing is going on in the house of God? The father's lost son has returned. The father's dead son is alive again.
You sound like the sour older brother sometimes.
- I dont need to do good works
I believe that I have asked you before to quote me concerning certain accusations you make. I never get a quotation as a response.
But this thread is on the Need of God. We certainly should see that Paul speaks of the good works that have been prepared that the saved should walk in after they are eternally redeemed. Right here:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works that no one should boast.
For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them." (Eph. 2:8-10)
1.) The saved are saved through grace.
2.) It is the GIFT of God. Not wages - GIFT. Not recompense, but GIFT. Not reward for work, but GIFT.
Having said that, "For by grace you have .... *** BEEN SAVED *** ..."
Past TENSE. By grace the believers have "BEEN SAVED".
Can those "BEEN SAVED" brag and boast of the works which saved them? No indeed.
"BEEN SAVED ... and this not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God; Not of works that no one should boast."
Stop bragging Rajk999, if indeed your really are a Christian believer. I wonder sometimes. God knows. Regardless, stop boasting.
Now is this all? Having clarified that "BEEN SAVED" took place upon the Christian by "GIFT" and not through his own works, what else is God concerned about ?
"For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works ..."
Now you can sit up. This should be the part you like. We, the Christians, SAVED in the past ... ie. "BEEN SAVED" were "created in Christ Jesus for *** GOOD WORKS ***"
Huh ? We Christians, who were SAVED were created in Christ Jesus for good works. We did not enter into Christ through good works. But we were created in Christ Jesus FOR good works.
So relating this post to the OP, I think we can certainly say that GOD NEEDS ... the good works. He needs them not for our initial salvation. But He needs them. And He prepared them beforehand that once eternally saved the Christians might through His grace, through His indwelling, through His dispensing of His life into man, might walk in these Christ expressing good works:
"For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them."
That's long enough for this post. God has a need not only for sons with His life and nature. He has a need that these sons walk in the good works prepared by God beforehand that the sons would walk in them.
The picture of the New Jerusalem of the saved walking on a street of gold probably signifies the saved in eternity living by and walking by the divine nature of the Father. That is walking on the ONE street of the Father's nature as Jesus walked.
God united forever with humanity.
- I have been regenerated
I already showed the past tense usage of this word in some verses.
I don't think I'll go over this again with you.
You are welcomed to have another opinion about it.
- I have the Holy Spirit
- God cannot take away my salvation .. 'his hands are tied'
- I can sin all I like
These are the teachings of Pharisees.
Do have any comments about God's Need - yes or no ?
26 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettYour a man of few words.
Desires and needs are not the same thing.
I am a little weary of posters who only write a tiny few words. Then I write a lot. Then they respond with their few.
This tactic can be used to just wear down a person. If you really don't want to put a little more meat on your responses, you'll find me not paying too close attention to you.
More one liner responses in which I have to assume the burden to flesh out your objection, and you'll just see me saying something like "That's nice" and moving on to other posters.
Sorry.
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillThe point remains, regardless of how succinctly it is made. That a god may have certain desires is not the same thing as it having needs. I may desire a can of Mountain Dew with breakfast, but I certainly don't need it.
Your a man of few words.
I am a little weary of posters who only write a tiny few words. Then I write a lot. Then they respond with their few.
This tactic can be used to just wear down a person. If you really don't want to put a little more meat on your responses, you'll find me not paying too close attention to you.
More one liner responses i ...[text shortened]... st see me saying something like "That's nice" and moving on to other posters.
Sorry.
As for the length of your posts, I would be all for you trimming them down a bit. Nobody reads all those biblical passages anyway. I end up just skimming over your posts in a cursory manner.
26 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettThat's a little better. Actually your first post was not bad.
The point remains, regardless of how succinctly it is made. That a god may have certain desires is not the same thing as it having needs. I may desire a can of Mountain Dew with breakfast, but I certainly don't need it.
As for the length of your posts, I would be all for you trimming them down a bit. Nobody reads all those biblical passages anyway. I end up just skimming over your posts in a cursory manner.
I'll think about a reply when I have time latter.
If you skim and don't read the supporting passages, my opinion is that the loss is yours. Anyway, I think someone will be benefitted, otherwise I wouldn't write for the public.
Now, very briefly - God's need verses God's desire ? Maybe that is arguable. Maybe that's semantics. Maybe that is argument over semantics.
I need a wife. I desire a wife.
I need a job. I desire a job.
I need children. I desire children.
At the present time rwingett, I feel that we are made in the image of God. We must REFLECT in some way God's being in all the positive ways.
We have need for enjoyment. It is, I feel a need, a desire and a need. God, in whose image we are created is the greatest life, the largest life, the most powerful life.
Thusly He has, perhaps, also the greatest need, the greatest desire. I don't think it is so much of a point that I need to change the title of my thread.
Unless you convince me, I am happy it remain "The Gospel as God's Need" for better or worse.
Did you regard the woman searching for the coin in Luke as a parable about God NEEDING to find something precious which He has lost ?
Did you regard the parable of the waiting father a window into the heart of God, ie. NEEDING His lost son to return home ?
I do regard the tone of these parables along those lines.
26 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo your god would be kind of like a 50 year old dude who desperately needs the adoration and companionship of the 4 year old set in the playground."Most presentations of the gospel are from the needs of man"
This is often the case with something manmade.
If that is your complaint then evidence of Christ and His apostles presenting it from the angle of God's need should be consideration that it is not manmade.
I promised some examples:
Jesus Christ [b](Luke 14:17) - ...[text shortened]... me to respond to YOUR need to have guests to enjoy your rich feast."