Originally posted by Rajk999
As for presenting opinions as facts, thats the start of apostasy an false doctrines.

And another thing. I don't see jaywill presenting his opinion as fact. I merely see him presenting his opinion. I'm sure he would be the first to tell you it's his opinion. But there is great clarity in what he says. Do not dismiss it out of hand. Maybe instead of blowing it off as you say, "utter rubbish", why don't you ask God about it? I would direct you to the Book of James, Chapter 1. A little humility goes a long ways.

Originally posted by jaywill
Answer me Rajk999. If you had been Hannah would you have said "God Does Not NEED ANYTHING." ?

Or would you have had the desire to lend the child to Jehovah God all the days he lives ?

Answer for us. Which do you think was more noble and according to the will of God, for Hannah to sense God's need or to assume God had NO NEEDS ?

You are a false teacher and I really dont care to answer your nonsense questions.

You are your doctrines are on the road to damnation.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You conveniently leave out the rest of what I was saying. I said:

"The Christian walk is not about a set of rules in a book where you toe the line, or perish. It is about what is written on your heart."

It is about what is written on your heart. If you are filled with the love of God and the love of your fellow man, you will naturally follow Christ' ...[text shortened]... Jesus himself would not approve of you holding your own personal Inquisition here.

I said that Christ is the way and his doctrines are to be followed. You and your type are twisting the Bible. Not me. I can condemn people for making up their own doctrines. I am not judging Jaywill. You need to to read and understand.


Is there somewhere in the Bible where Christ said that God needs man?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are a false teacher and I really dont care to answer your nonsense questions.

You are your doctrines are on the road to damnation.

You are a false teacher and I really dont care to answer your nonsense questions.

You are your doctrines are on the road to damnation.

Is it because you cannot answer without realizing the truth of the matter ?
You cannot even admit that Hannah had a deep sense of the NEED of God to be lent a young man to serve Him ?

God certainly HONORED Hannah's vow. Did He not ?
At least in THIS instance God did not rebuff her, saying "I do not NEED your child."

Maybe at another place you DO see God rebuffing man. But as I said, we learn not only what is written. We learn "again, it is written ..." .

This teaching does not lead to damnation IMO. Actually the realization of GOD's NEED is a basis of "consecration".

That is another subject - consecration: its basis and its motive.

==========================================
EXODUS 17 - God NEEDS the hands of Moses to be held up by Aaron and Hur to defeat the Amalekites.

"And Moses said to Joshua. Choose men for us, and go out; fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the stafff of God in my hand. So Joshua did as Moses had said to him and fought with Amalek; and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.

And when Moses lifted his hand up, Israel prevailed; and when he let his hand down, Amalek prevailed. But Moses hands were heavy; so they tool a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it; and Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side and one on the other side. So his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

And Joshua defeated Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." (Exodus 17:9-13)

When Moses blessing hands became weary, the enemies of God and of Israel began to prevail. Moses needed support to keep his hands with the staff of God in it, steady. Aaron, representing the priesthood, and Hur, representing the kingship, were there to support the hands of Moses.

Rajk999, did God NEED for Aaron and Hur to support the hands of Moses in order for the Amalekites to be defeated ? I say yes. I say this account is put in the Bible very purposefully.

This shows the COORDINATION between God and man. This shows the COOPERATION between God and man.

All things in the Old Testament were written for the instruction and example of learning to the New Testament saints of the church. God needs His people's cooperation and coordination, even in intercessionary prayer and in endurance of grace. In the spiritual warfare, God needs a certain kind of cooperation from His redeemed people.

Exodus 17:8-16 as well as Samuel 1 shows us something about the need of God. These stories should encourage His people about the basis of consecration to God for God's need.

Originally posted by jaywill

I see you stretching it to make it infer what you want it to mean.

I would like you to tell me WHY ... WHY God would ask for a COMMAND from these His people ?

At least, I think, you should see that God CHOOSES here, not to act apart from the corresponding sympathy, coordination, cooperation of His people Israel.

Is this ...[text shortened]... Did God NEED Daniel's prayers ? Daniel seemed to believe that God must have.

jaywill, brother, please don't get me wrong. I have no intention of debating publicly with you about Biblical interpretations.

But this I will say concerning Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

How is it that you think Paul is saying here that 'the Israel of God' is the Church, The Body of Christ?

Originally posted by josephw
jaywill, brother, please don't get me wrong. I have no intention of debating publicly with you about Biblical interpretations.

But this I will say concerning Galatians 6:16 [b]And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

How is it that you think Paul is saying here that 'the Israel of God' is the Church, The Body of Christ?[/b]

Incredible ! You need to grovel to disagree with Jaywill?
Grow some balls and speak your mind man.
What the hell kind of Christian are you if you cannot stand up for truth.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Incredible ! You need to grovel to disagree with Jaywill?
Grow some balls and speak your mind man.
What the hell kind of Christian are you if you cannot stand up for truth.

Rajk, brother, don't get me wrong, but I got'm dragin'. 😉

I know the truth, do you?

Originally posted by josephw
Rajk, brother, don't get me wrong, but I got'm dragin'. 😉

I know the truth, do you?

Truth comes from Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Truth comes from Christ.

I couldn't agree more!

Originally posted by josephw
I couldn't agree more!

Truth is not necessarily from peoples opinions, impressions, conclusions, interpretations, analyses, etc . These are all fallible and prone to bias.

The words of Christ is truth.
The words of the Apostles come next and lend support for the words of Christ and must be interpreted in the light of what Christ said.

Christ's words first.
Apostles second.
Others in the Bible, third.

1Cor 11:3 .. the head of every man is Christ; .. and the head of Christ is God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Truth is not necessarily from peoples opinions, impressions, conclusions, interpretations, analyses, etc . These are all fallible and prone to bias.

The words of Christ is truth.
The words of the Apostles come next and lend support for the words of Christ and must be interpreted in the light of what Christ said.

Christ's words first.
Apostles second. ...[text shortened]... rd.

1Cor 11:3 .. the head of every man is Christ; .. and the head of Christ is God.

God's Word is the final authority.

Originally posted by josephw
jaywill, brother, please don't get me wrong. I have no intention of debating publicly with you about Biblical interpretations.

But this I will say concerning Galatians 6:16 [b]And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

How is it that you think Paul is saying here that 'the Israel of God' is the Church, The Body of Christ?[/b]

But this I will say concerning Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. The tone of the letter is that the saints in the churches in Galatia OUGHT to be the Israel of God.

How is it that you think Paul is saying here that 'the Israel of God' is the Church, The Body of Christ?

It is a fair question that should be asked.

I think this "Israel of God" designation is meant to be an identify of quality rather than an identity of mere position or standing. It would be superfiscial to just say the church is the Israel of God.

What Paul said was " as many as walk BY THIS RULE, peace be upon them, even upon the Israel of God "

So it is not an automatic matter as in everyone is in the Church is in the Israel of God. It is as many as walk by a certain rule of the new creation, to them to whom because of such a high quality spiritual walk, peace is with them.

All the Galatian Christians were members of the church universal. But were all of them walking by "this rule" manifesting a new creation ? Obviously from the letter, what OUGHT to have been and what ACTUALLY was were not entirely the same.

So Paul says in essence - "as many of you Galatian Christians who have this normal yet high quality walk in the Spirit as the new creation - PRACTICALLY, DAILY, upon you God's peace even upon the Israel of God".

This is the Israel whose source is not simply in the flesh, as physical descendents of Abraham. This is the true Israel lf God born of, living, walking daily by the rule of being a new creation through Christ.

What is called "the Israel of God" in Galatians, I feel, is called "the kingdom of the heavens" specifically in the book of Matthew. The normal prevailing and overcoming Christian life under the administration of God.