1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 03:452 edits
    The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB)

    "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15*

    "This is the saddest and most sobering passage in all of Scripture. Remember our Lord wept over death (John 11:35; Luke 19:41) - both physical death and especially the spiritual death (the second death) of all the unsaved, of all those who reject Him and His saving love offered at the cross. "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!" (Ezek. 33:11) Thus no man should be able to read or teach this passage without sorrow in his heart, if not tears in his eyes. The reason Jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else did is because He wanted no one to go there. "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9; also see John 3:16) Yet, we see here and throughout the Bible, both the reality of hell, eternal torment, and the justice of hell.

    "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." The next scene John saw was the great white throne with the Lord Jesus Christ sitting upon it. This is based on John 5:22: "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." (Also see John 5:22-29 that speaks of the resurrection of the saved and the unrepentant and 2 Tim. 4:1.) At this point in this unfolding revelation, all those saved, Old and New Testament saints, Tribulation saints, and by implication, Millennial saints, have all received their resurrected, glorified bodies and thus belong to the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17) as God is about to destroy the old creation, the heavens and the earth (v.11).

    "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness." (See 2 Peter 3:7-13) "Since the coming of the Lord is in fact the end of the natural universe (2 Pet. 3:10-13), we read that there was found no place for them (v. 11), making way for a new heaven and a new earth to occupy the place left vacant by their dismissal" (21:1).Gregg, Steve: Revelation, Four Views : A Parallel Commentary. Nashville , Tenn. : T. Nelson Publishers, 1997. Satan and his demons have defiled the heavens (Eph. 6:12) and the earth is polluted and sin-soaked with the evil of fallen man. God's new creation will not just be a renovation and renewal as seen in the Millennium but an entirely new heaven and new earth. Science says that matter cannot be created or destroyed but God does both as seen here and in Genesis 1.

    "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life." What a scary and awe-filled scene like the one Daniel describes in his vision (Dan. 7: 9-10). It seems that all unsaved people from Cain to the last rebel we see in the Millennium are all together standing before the Lord Jesus ready to be judged based on their works (and books were opened) and sentenced by the Judge of all. Scripture says no one is righteous, no one keeps the law and no one is saved by works of righteousness (e.g., See Rom. 3-4) because even our best deeds are as filthy rags [menstrual rags] compared to the pure white perfect righteousness of God (Isa. 64:6). The righteousness that God requires for a person to be saved is the perfect righteousness a righteous God is required to require. (Matt. 5:48) Thus the only way to be saved is by grace (God's undeserved forgiveness and favor) through faith (in what God in Christ did for us on the cross when He took the punishment for all of our sins and credited us with His perfect righteousness), and not by works (Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Cor. 5:21)."

    http://www.kenboa.org/text_resources/teaching_letters/lens_mens_fellowship/6640

    * "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." It grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends who contribute to this forum may be among them. -Bob
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    05 Jan '14 03:53
    I wonder wonder who, oouu who
    Who wrote the book of love

    Tell me, tell me, tell me
    Oh who wrote the book of love

    I've got to know the answer
    Was it someone from above

    I wonder wonder who, be-do-do who
    Who wrote the book of love

    I, I love you darlin'
    Baby you know I do
    But I've got to see this book of love
    Find out why it's true

    I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love

    Chorus:

    Chapter one says the lover
    You lover her with all your heart

    Chapter two you tell her
    You never, never, never, never, ever wanna part

    In chapter three remember
    The meaning of romance

    In chapter four you break up
    But you give her just one more chance

    Oh I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love

    Baby, baby, baby
    I love you yes I do
    Well it says so in this book of love
    Are’s is the one that's true

    Oh I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love

    (Chorus)

    Oh I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love

    Baby, baby, baby
    I love you yes I do
    Well it says so in this book of love
    Are’s is the one that's true

    I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 03:561 edit
    The Great White Throne Judgment: "11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose [a]presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev. 20:11-15
  4. Territories Unknown
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    05 Jan '14 03:58
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I wonder wonder who, oouu who
    Who wrote the book of love

    Tell me, tell me, tell me
    Oh who wrote the book of love

    [b]I've got to know the answer

    Was it someone from above

    I wonder wonder who, be-do-do who
    Who wrote the book of love

    I, I love you darlin'
    Baby you know I do
    But I've got to see this book of love
    Find o ...[text shortened]... #146;s is the one that's true

    I wonder wonder who, be-doooo who
    Who wrote the book of love[/b]
    You are a douche nozzle.
  5. Joined
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    05 Jan '14 05:34
    If you could speak directly to the 1.5 billion Muslims who believe you are going to miss out on their Paradise because you do not accept their Qur'an as the true word of God, what would you say to them to convince them that they are just brainwashed?

    http://onlydeenislam.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/the-qur%E2%80%99an-the-word-of-god/
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 05:46
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    If you could speak directly to the 1.5 billion Muslims who believe you are going to miss out on their Paradise because you do not accept their Qur'an as the true word of God, what would you say to them to convince them that they are just brainwashed?

    http://onlydeenislam.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/the-qur%E2%80%99an-the-word-of-god/
    If given such an unusual opportunity, Paul, I'd dress appropriately; and first thank them for the privilege of the invitation and for their hospitality; then read them the following words, slowly repeating the final sentence. Thanks for your reply.

    "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18) "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. " (Acts 16:31a) "I am the way, and the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.
  7. Joined
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    05 Jan '14 18:05
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    The choice is yours.
    I imagine the vast majority of today's Muslims believe the Qur'an because they were raised among family and friends who were insistent that it is the truth.

    A former coworker who was raised by Mormon parents in Bountiful, Utah spent quite a number of emails a few years back trying to convert me from skepticism to Mormonism (LDS). I used it as an opportunity to show him problems with his beliefs. You won't be surprised that at the end of the emailing (ending when he indicated to me he did not want to continue the discussion), he remained Mormon and I remained non-Mormon.

    Would you go so far as to say something like this? "We need to be especially vigilant in ferreting out problems with the beliefs that were drummed into our heads by the authority figures around us when we were young."
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 20:251 edit
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I imagine the vast majority of today's Muslims believe the Qur'an because they were raised among family and friends who were insistent that it is the truth.

    A former coworker who was raised by Mormon parents in Bountiful, Utah spent quite a number of emails a few years back trying to convert me from skepticism to Mormonism (LDS). I used it as an opp ...[text shortened]... beliefs that were drummed into our heads by the authority figures around us when we were young."
    "Would you go so far as to say something like this? We need to be especially vigilant in ferreting out problems with the beliefs that were drummed into our heads by the authority figures around us when we were young." -Paul Dirac II

    Your point's well made that human beings are extraordinarily impressionable during childhood years. With respect to an individual's eventual belief, there's an overarching context as well as volitional factors. I've described the progression potential from God Consciousness to Gospel Hearing several times before. In summary employing a secular paraphrase from George Wills' observation on Capitalism on a Sunday Television News Program earlier today, "Absolute Truth goes where it's welcome and stays where it's well treated". We all emerge from the maternal oven kicking, screaming and ignorant. We proceed over many decades to either make peace with ultimate realty or accept some contrary or counterfeit point of view. Rejection of God's Grace Gift through faith alone in Christ alone always results in arrogance (faith alone in yourself alone).
  9. Joined
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    05 Jan '14 20:36
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Rejection of God's Grace Gift through faith alone in Christ alone always results in arrogance (faith alone in yourself alone).
    As a case study, suppose a Bible believer uses Internet discussion boards to insist that the Universe is mere thousands of years old, not billions, despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Would you view that as a form of arrogance on his part? If you prayed that your Lord would speak correction to that Christian, with a voice audible in his head, do you think the Lord would honor your prayer?

    (I ask this largely because a Christian blogger once told me that "God rarely speaks to people in modern times." I wonder how widespread that view is among believers.)
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 22:051 edit
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    As a case study, suppose a Bible believer uses Internet discussion boards to insist that the Universe is mere thousands of years old, not billions, despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Would you view that as a form of arrogance on his part? If you prayed that your Lord would speak correction to that Christian, with a voice audible in his h ...[text shortened]... rarely speaks to people in modern times." I wonder how widespread that view is among believers.)
    At the point of Salvation, every new Believers in Christ is an ignorant infant in terms of their applicable knowledge of the promises, plan and prohibitions of God; of Isagogic, Categorical and Exegetical Principles involved in understanding the content in The Word of God; and equally ignorant of creation, dispensations, doctrinal rationales, their practical applications.

    Some are taught accurate basic doctrine as children at home. Some eventually become serious about learning the full realm of Bible Doctrine. God the Holy Spirit will provide their right pastor/teacher convenient to their local or by MP3CD or other media to listen to in their homes, so that they may expose themselves systematically to the accurate verse by verse teaching of scripture from the original languages and continue to mature in knowledge and in acquiring the Mind of Christ.

    No Believer has an excuse for ignorance. Yet, some lack the desire and discipline required to grow out of infancy; these are often the Christians who have barely a thimble full of accurate knowledge yet claim they know everything about everything, espousing as absolute truth their acquired taboos, ceremonial observances no longer authorized for the Church Age, half truths mixed with error, outright falsehoods and their own infallible personal opinions. They confuse the simplest of issues and understandably become the targets of ridicule and derision for unbelievers, hindering the cause of Christ.

    Among Christ's final words to His Disciples at the crucifixion were, "Feed my sheep". Believers are instructed to grow in Grace. God the Holy Spirit enables all Believer in Christ to learn answers to their continuing questions and to discern.
  11. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 22:21
    1.20. "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26) When you believe in Christ, you enter into a new, personal relationship with God; a relationship beginning in time and a member of His family forever.

    2. The Word of God

    2.1. "The Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and the marrow, and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

    2.2. "All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God might be mature, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

    2.3. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

    2.4 "But a natural man [unbeliever] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them [the Gospel and Bible doctrine], because they are spiritually discerned [appraised]."
    1 Corinthians 2:14 (RHP/Spirituality Forum Reference Section)
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    05 Jan '14 22:334 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Believers are instructed to grow in Grace. God the Holy Spirit enables all Believer in Christ to learn answers to their continuing questions and to discern.
    I think that's your way of saying the Holy Spirit will proceed at His own pace and will not be prodded by any intercessory prayer from you.

    I mentioned above some email correspondence with a Mormon man from Utah. In one of my first emails to him, I asked him if his deity speaks audibly to him. He gave me an unequivocal 'Yes' answer.

    In a follow-up email, I related to him something that happened in my youth, which I had not told him about when he was my office mate. I left out one key piece of my story, and asked him to pray that God would speak that piece to him, and he could email me back with it.

    There was a pause of several days. Then he emailed me to admit that the voice he hears is "a still small voice."

    After several rounds of discussion between us about this small voice of God, it seemed that it boiled down to this: The Mormon deity creates a "burning in the bosom" in him that tells him that the LDS church has the correct "doctrines and covenants."

    To this day I am open to getting that burning in my bosom--and yet it has not manifested itself. Until I get that burning, I will be a doubter.

    Bob, are you open to getting that burning? If you are open to it in principle, but years go by and you don't get the burning, will you be like me in continuing to reject the Mormon doctrines?

    "Your heart is hardened," my correspondent told me, and he said in his next-to-last email to me that he could see he was "casting pearls before swine." He would surely classify you as swine too, if he knew that you were rejecting his belief system.

    Is his burning in the bosom enough to convert you to his belief system, even if you yourself never experience the burning?
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Jan '14 22:481 edit
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    (I ask this largely because a Christian blogger once told me that "God rarely speaks to people in modern times." I wonder how widespread that view is among believers.)
    I personally believe that God speaks to no one in these latter days (even believers(even Popes, or other 'Prophets' )). The world is endemic with sin. It is truly "as in the days of Noah". We're in the 'latter days'... the end is nigh. Everything we've a need to know is covered in the Bible. Believers have the Holy Spirit to guide them in their growth. Perhaps one could count this as "God speaking" to them. God does, however, send messages through his 'messengers', or angels, on occasion, usually in times of dire need.
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    05 Jan '14 22:512 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    We're in the 'latter days'... the end is nigh.
    Are you willing to quantify that to any degree?

    Will the Second Coming have happened before the passage of another...
    100 years?
    1,000 years?
    10,000 years?
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    05 Jan '14 22:57
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
    I think that's your way of saying the Holy Spirit will proceed at His own pace and will not be prodded by any intercessory prayer from you.

    I mentioned above some email correspondence with a Mormon man from Utah. In one of my first emails to him, I asked him if his deity speaks audibly to him. He gave me an unequivocal 'Yes' answer.

    In a follow-u ...[text shortened]... h to convert you to his belief system, even if you yourself never experience the burning?
    Learning the Word of God involves our rational capacities; emotions are designed for appreciation. The Holy Spirit actually intercedes with God the Father on a Believer's behalf in prayer, with requests and petitions to deep to be uttered. And He proceeds at the pace of the individual's positive volition and desire to learn the entire realm of Bible Doctrine. Nothing at all to do with feelings per se. Without being disrespectful, Paul, the only meaning of "burning in bosom" I'm able grasp is heartburn (which has happened a few times over the decades at greasy spoon diners on the road). Heart: kardia = mind.
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