Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"You know better than this. You only say this because you want to see the end of all faith. " -Suzianne

Interestingly, this will eventually occur around the globe one nano second after the Rapture. Believers in Christ won't be around to play online correspondence chess and contribute to this spirituality forum; initially, unbelievers only will popula ...[text shortened]... en years. Even food will be difficult to obtain for those who refuse to worship the Anti-Christ.

I'm not so sure, Bob.

I tend to think that Christians will be utterly surprised to slowly come to the realization that the Tribulation is here, and so, still, are they. I wonder how many of them will lose their faith that day, thinking that somehow God has 'abandoned' them. I'm not convinced of the Rapture, at least not a pre-Tribulation one. What a perfect opportunity the Tribulation is to winnow out the Christians with the weakest faith. I do not mean to put a thorn to your Rapture balloon, you are free to believe what you want. I'm just not fully on-board with it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm not so sure, Bob.

I tend to think that Christians will be utterly surprised to slowly come to the realization that the Tribulation is here, and so, still, are they. I wonder how many of them will lose their faith that day, thinking that somehow God has 'abandoned' them. I'm not convinced of the Rapture, at least not a pre-Tribulation one. What a p ...[text shortened]... ur Rapture balloon, you are free to believe what you want. I'm just not fully on-board with it.

"Question: "What is the Rapture of the church?" Answer: The word “rapture” does not occur in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in Scripture. The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 [All Christians will be instantaneously removed from earth.]

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." And 1 Corinthians 15:51–52

"Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with those believers who are still alive and who will at that time also be given glorified bodies. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

"The rapture will be instantaneous in nature, and we will receive glorified bodies at that time. “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

The rapture is the glorious event we should all be longing for. We will finally be free from sin. We will be in God's presence forever. There is far too much debate over the meaning and scope of the rapture. This is not God’s intent. Rather, in regard to the rapture, God wants us to “encourage each other with these words” 1 Thessalonians 4:18 Michael Houdmann http://www.gotquestions.org/rapture.html

Note: Throughout the Church Age the doctrine of the imminence of the Rapture holds true (James 5:8; Revelation 22:7-20). This simply means that the resuscitation of the Church is the next prophetic event in God's Plan but the exact time isn't announced. The Rapture [exit] could have occurred in Paul's day or a thousand years from January 6, 2014, or during the NFL Divisional Playoff Games this weekend. Speculation by Christians on the time has no biblical foundation. Naturally a maturing believer's love for Christ creates an eager anticipation (1Cor.1:4-8) but must be tempered with patience.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Precisely. He's done His job. The rest is up to us.

Why do you think there are no more prophets?

I know there are no more books being added to the Bible, that does not
mean that there are no more prophets. I'd also like to know where you
got your "He's done His job. The rest is up to us." at as well, as near as
I can tell Jesus said the Holy Spirit was sent to lead, and teach us. His
gifts included a lot of things that sound like God speaking to us as well.
Kelly

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Isn't that cute?... Why not simply reject his science? The message God has isn't scientific in nature; it is spiritual.

It looks like maybe you didn't pick up on my motivation for bringing the topic of the global flood into this thread. My motivation came from the bottom post of page 1, in which a believer made this claim:

"Learning the Word of God involves our rational capacities; emotions are designed for appreciation."

What the believer is telling you and me is that someone merely feeling good about the belief system they inherited from their parents is not compelling enough for him. Logical thought and empirical evidence are what really count.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
If the believer is persuaded of a younger-than-it-really-is age of the earth, you're going to reject his spiritual message? Why not simply reject his science?

Let's say there was this man in the 1800s--we'll call him Joseph S.--who made some claims and insisted that people take them for truth. Among his claims there were these:

1) "The all-knowing Almighty communicates directly with me."
2) "All native Americans are Israelites whose skin was turned brown due to their sin."

If modern scientific evidence points pretty strongly toward item 2 being false, would you allow that to affect your assessment of how likely item 1 is to also be false?

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
Let's say there was this man in the 1800s--we'll call him Joseph S.--who made some claims and insisted that people take them for truth. Among his claims there were these:

1) "The all-knowing Almighty communicates directly with me."
2) "All native Americans are Israelites whose skin was turned brown due to their sin."

If modern scientific evidenc ...[text shortened]... false, would you allow that to affect your assessment of how likely item 1 is to also be false?

Without even going so far as to strip his assertions bare by pointing to an unpublished romantic novel by Solomon Spalding which was previously on the shelves of the publishing house where said "Joseph S" had worked as a janitor, I would simply point to orthodox Christian theology in order to close the book on his claims otherwise.

While I do agree that truth cannot contradict truth, I am equally aware of the danger of putting words into the text which are simply not there. Thus, my insistence on keeping scientific perspectives out of spiritual discussions... unless the topic can convey an understanding or appreciation of whatever salient point is in focus.

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
It looks like maybe you didn't pick up on my motivation for bringing the topic of the global flood into this thread. My motivation came from the bottom post of page 1, in which a believer made this claim:

[b]"Learning the Word of God involves our rational capacities; emotions are designed for appreciation."

What the believer is telling you an ...[text shortened]... is not compelling enough for him. Logical thought and empirical evidence are what really count.[/b]

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (page 1)
Learning the Word of God involves our rational capacities; emotions are designed for appreciation. The Holy Spirit actually intercedes with God the Father on a Believer's behalf in prayer, with requests and petitions to deep to be uttered. And He proceeds at the pace of the individual's positive volition and desire to learn the entire realm of Bible Doctrine. Nothing at all to do with feelings per se. Without being disrespectful, Paul, the only meaning of "burning in bosom" I'm able grasp is heartburn (which has happened a few times over the decades at greasy spoon diners on the road). Heart: kardia = mind.

"Logical thought and empirical evidence are what really count." As posted: [Learning the Word of God involves our rational capacities.... the individual's positive volition and desire to learn the entire realm of Bible Doctrine] "are what really count."

Originally posted by Suzianne
You know better than this. You only say this because you want to see the end of all faith.

And I didn't say faith. I said religion.

Excuse me. But I know why I said it and you don't.

Please don't tell me why I say things, you always get it wrong.

I do not 'know better than this'.

Science is emphatically and irrevocably utterly incompatible with all faith based religions.

I know of no non-faith based religion.

Christianity is certainly a faith based religion.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Prove that God doesn't exist and that there have been no prophets.

It's a stalemate.

Yes, you have a closed mind because you refuse to believe anything that doesn't show itself to you. And yeah, that *is* a cop out.

Wrong.

I have an open mind because I am prepared to believe whatever the evidence shows to be true.

Show me sufficient evidence for your god and I will believe it exists.

YOU have a closed mind because there is nothing I can possibly show you that would change your
mind because you DON'T care about evidence.

You are the one 'cop'-ing' out here. Not me.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"You know better than this. You only say this because you want to see the end of all faith. " -Suzianne

Interestingly, this will eventually occur around the globe one nano second after the Rapture. Believers in Christ won't be around to play online correspondence chess and contribute to this spirituality forum; initially, unbelievers only will popula ...[text shortened]... en years. Even food will be difficult to obtain for those who refuse to worship the Anti-Christ.

Never Going To Happen.


And you are a sick f*** for thinking it will.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Question: "What is the Rapture of the church?" Answer: The word “rapture” does not occur in the Bible. The concept of the rapture, though, is clearly taught in Scripture. [i]The rapture of the church is the event in which God removes all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the t ...[text shortened]... s love for Christ creates an eager anticipation (1Cor.1:4-8) but must be tempered with patience.

I'm fully aware of what the Rapture is, Bob, and I realize it is held as a point of faith by many churches. I'm just not buying it. As I said, not a pre-Tribulation Rapture, anyways. I don't think Christians are getting a "Get out of the Tribulation Free" card.

Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
Let's say there was this man in the 1800s--we'll call him Joseph S.--who made some claims and insisted that people take them for truth. Among his claims there were these:

1) "The all-knowing Almighty communicates directly with me."
2) "All native Americans are Israelites whose skin was turned brown due to their sin."

If modern scientific evidenc ...[text shortened]... false, would you allow that to affect your assessment of how likely item 1 is to also be false?

I see what you did there. 😕

Originally posted by googlefudge
Wrong.

I have an open mind because I am prepared to believe whatever the evidence shows to be true.

Show me sufficient evidence for your god and I will believe it exists.

YOU have a closed mind because there is nothing I can possibly show you that would change your
mind because you DON'T care about evidence.

You are the one 'cop'-ing' out here. Not me.

But evidence to you is only peer reviewed journals 'n' such, (I'm guessing).

If you get evidence for something that can be only understood in your universe, will you still accept it?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Never Going To Happen.


And you are a sick f*** for thinking it will.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Never Going To Happen.


And you are a sick f*** for thinking it will.

On what authority do you make the assertion that the Rapture and The Great White Throne Judgment won't occur?

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm fully aware of what the Rapture is, Bob, and I realize it is held as a point of faith by many churches. I'm just not buying it. As I said, not a pre-Tribulation Rapture, anyways. I don't think Christians are getting a "Get out of the Tribulation Free" card.

On what basis do you judge your unsupported faith based beliefs to be more probable than other peoples unsupported faith based beliefs?